johndoe74
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:37 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2011
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:02 am

EdmondLeaf wrote:
johndoe74 wrote:My wife's Leaf of 9 months, 13500 miles also lost one battery bar, about two weeks ago. We live in Chandler, AZ.
how is the car parked during the day, covered or open parking?
95% covered, at work it is under a covered parking garage.

johndoe74
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:37 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2011
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:05 am

RegGuheert wrote:
johndoe74 wrote:The daily commute is about 30 miles (sometimes 45 miles with errands) each way, charge again to 80% at work, then another 30 miles going home.
I'm wondering if charging in the heat of the day is the reason your wife's LEAF lost a capacity bar earlier than other LEAFs in Phoenix.
The charging station is installed in the covered parking garage, which should be 10 to 15 degrees cooler than ambient temperature?

Although since we hit at least 105F daily lately, my garage is at least 100F until late night. And I charge at 9PM nightly. Looks like I need to change it to 3AM or something.

palmermd
Posts: 2615
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:09 am

shrink wrote:The latest article:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... esnt-blink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks. I did not catch that new article yet. We now know that it is current. But interesting that it is still an un-named source. Not very official but telling none the less.
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2018 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


Leaf Bar Loss

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JPWhite
Gold Member
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:09 am

GaslessInSeattle wrote:For Nissan to claim this is normal seems more potentially damaging to them financially in terms of low future sales than discretely handling these cases in a more generous manner. For me, the trust gap with Nissan over battery capacity is growing. Consumer confidence is key if they really want this technology to grow; my confidence in the product is declining with seeing how they handle each of these extreme cases.
+1
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:10 am

johndoe74 wrote:Although since we hit at least 105F daily lately, my garage is at least 100F until late night. And I charge at 9PM nightly. Looks like I need to change it to 3AM or something.
Yes, I would think charging at the coolest possible temperature would be best.

Please note that if you set an end timer with no start timer the LEAF will delay the charge as long as possible to allow it to finish before your wife is ready to leave in the morning.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:23 am

OrientExpress wrote:17 cars out of a population of 25000 is .00068. That is more than 3 standard deviations from the mean, or in layman's terms, an edge case.
You need to compare apple to apple here.

It shouldn't be 17/25000, nor should it be 17/500 because I'm sure there are more capacity losses not reported than the 17 reported.

The only meaningful sampling ratio at all should be

# of reported loss / (# of reported loss + # of reported NO loss) in Phoenix.

So far I've only heard of maybe a few from Phoenix who reported that they haven't lost a bar yet. Some of them who said they hadn't lost a bar have come back later and said they finally lost a bar.

The real ratio that's meaningful to me is more like 17/20 at this point. If you're going to sample, you have to pick samples from the same pool.
Last edited by Volusiano on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

Volusiano
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:33 am

JPWhite wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:For Nissan to claim this is normal seems more potentially damaging to them financially in terms of low future sales than discretely handling these cases in a more generous manner. For me, the trust gap with Nissan over battery capacity is growing. Consumer confidence is key if they really want this technology to grow; my confidence in the product is declining with seeing how they handle each of these extreme cases.
+1
+2

Battery capacity degradation has always been the single biggest concern any potential buyer would want to know before making their purchase decision. Nissan might have been able to fool early adopters with vague assurances about capacity degradation before. But now that the cat is out of the bag, Nissan is going to have to sell this issue to a much tougher crowd than the early adopters.

If Nissan is not going to handle this right, nobody is going to trust Nissan anymore, and even people in cooler climate would now think twice about buying a product from a company that can't be trusted. So the bigger issue now all of a sudden is not just about capacity degradation, but is about TRUST.

Which issue would Nissan rather deal with in order to meet their ambitious future sale projection? Without TRUST, you can't win any business.

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:40 am

tap, tap tap... is this thing on? Carlos Ghosn are you listening???

from the comment section http://insideevs.com/leaf-sales-to-doub ... -december/ here we are beginning to see the issue bleed into the public domain:

"No, they need to fix the capacity loss problem first. Nissan screwed up royally by not giving the batteries any sort of temperature control and customers are paying for it. Nissan isn’t standing beside those customers, the warranty states that as long as the battery still charges it’s good. So, it may only get 20-30 miles per charge in a few years but that’s totally fine. Unless you’re a LEAF owner who’s stuck with a car with half it’s range from 5 yrs ago.

2 owners already lost 2 bars on their LEAF’s and that could about 25% range lost. 2 owners, out of 13,000 but it’s only been a year."
Volusiano wrote:
JPWhite wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:For Nissan to claim this is normal seems more potentially damaging to them financially in terms of low future sales than discretely handling these cases in a more generous manner. For me, the trust gap with Nissan over battery capacity is growing. Consumer confidence is key if they really want this technology to grow; my confidence in the product is declining with seeing how they handle each of these extreme cases.
+1
+2

Battery capacity degradation has always been the single biggest concern any potential buyer would want to know before making their purchase decision. Nissan might have been able to fool early adopters with vague assurances about capacity degradation before. But now that the cat is out of the bag, Nissan is going to have to sell this issue to a much tougher crowd than the early adopters.

If Nissan is not going to handle this right, nobody is going to trust Nissan anymore, and even people in cooler climate would now think twice about buying a product from a company that can't be trusted. So the bigger issue now all of a sudden is not just about capacity degradation, but is about TRUST.

Which issue would Nissan rather deal with in order to meet their ambitious future sale projection? Without TRUST, you can't win any business.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
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OrientExpress
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Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:50 am

Volusiano wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:17 cars out of a population of 25000 is .00068. That is more than 3 standard deviations from the mean, or in layman's terms, an edge case.
You need to compare apple to apple here.

It shouldn't be 17/25000, nor should it be 17/500 because I'm sure there are more capacity losses not reported than the 17 reported.

The only meaningful sampling ratio at all should be

# of reported loss / (# of reported loss + # of reported NO loss) in Phoenix.

So far I've only heard of maybe a few from Phoenix who reported that they haven't lost a bar yet. Some of them who said they hadn't lost a bar have come back later and said they finally lost a bar.

The real ratio that's meaningful to me is more like 17/20 at this point. If you're going to sample, you have to pick samples from the same pool.

I have it right. The comparison are the know outliers vs. the total universe. Cherry picking the total universe from just Phoenix or even the southwest is not valid because one cannot say with certainly that similar condition do not exist outside of your suggested sample universe. Also we cannot say for certain what the total number nor location of all of the outliers are, so by default the entire universe must be considered in the sample.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

leafkabob
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:47 am
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2015
Leaf Number: 1827
Location: Central Phoenix

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:15 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
johndoe74 wrote:Although since we hit at least 105F daily lately, my garage is at least 100F until late night. And I charge at 9PM nightly. Looks like I need to change it to 3AM or something.
Yes, I would think charging at the coolest possible temperature would be best.

Please note that if you set an end timer with no start timer the LEAF will delay the charge as long as possible to allow it to finish before your wife is ready to leave in the morning.
I don't think it is going to make much difference. From day one I charged beginning at 3 am (to 80%) and I lost a bar after 12 mos and 9500 miles. Opossum reported that a car that was kept in an air conditioned garage lost a bar. I think the high ambient temperature is the problem.
Kelly

2011 White SL-e (sold back to Nissan on 01/10/2013)
2011Silver SL with new lizard battery purchased used on 9/9/2015
2018 Tesla Model 3 received 4/27/2018

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