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Randy
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Leaf Number: 0191
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:59 pm

Stoaty wrote:
klapauzius wrote: Can we start a list like this people in hot climates that have similar usage stats (i.e. age/mileage) that have NOT lost capacity yet?
Just to get feeling for the x in 20 out of x.
I suspect it is a systematic thing, i.e. a consequence of the heat acting on the battery chemistry, but maybe not (...wishful thinking...)
I think a more useful list would be to record for as many people as possible:

--Gid count at 100% charge
--Length of ownership
--Odometer mileage
--Geographic location

This would include everyone we can get a measurement for, whether they have lost a capacity bar or not.

I started such a thread yesterday so we can start to gather data...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Randy

EdmondLeaf
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:55 am

Carcus wrote:
ravi100 wrote:In response to a question:

The car is garaged. It is rarely out of the garage for more than 2-3 hrs at a time.
Its primarily used to pick up and drop of our son at school, trips to the grocery store
etc. Our garage door is insulated and today for example its 102F outside
and 85F in the garage.
Might be interesting to get a thermometer and check the "usual suspects".
That is exactly what I did, I did not look very far:this is temp 1 ft above the close by road, ambient temp was 100F
6/24/2012 15:45 125.064F
6/24/2012 16:00 126.289F
6/24/2012 16:15 125.771F
6/24/2012 16:30 125.692F
6/24/2012 16:45 124.363F
6/24/2012 17:00 125.064F

Do not expose a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
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Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:59 am

ravi100 wrote:
thankyouOB wrote:if you lose one battery bar, how much loss of capacity is that - 1/12 or 8.5%?
From the Nissan data its actually 15%
how does that work, if you lose on bar?
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

Stoaty
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:13 am

thankyouOB wrote:how does that work, if you lose one bar?
See the Leaf Wiki "Battery Capacity Behavior": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... em#Battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's from the Leaf service manual.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:40 am

Herm wrote:
EdmondLeaf wrote: Limit should be set by manufacturer disabling vehicle when battery temp is close to danger zone, because there is no way to control or know what actual battery temp really is.
Nissan knows the exact temperature, I believe they start to dial back the power at 10 bars.. probably complete shutdown at 11 bars and a star trek phaser overload alarm starts blaring at 12 bars. If you listen carefully you might hear the cells venting.
Sorry, not true. I quick charged the LEAF one week ago with 10 battery temperature bars, and it did not do any of the things you suggest.

The battery actually lost temperature bars while driving in 60F ambient heat over the next 85 miles at 60 mph.

Herm
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:15 am

TonyWilliams wrote: Sorry, not true. I quick charged the LEAF one week ago with 10 battery temperature bars, and it did not do any of the things you suggest.
Good to hear, do you know what to do if you hear that overloaded phaser sound?.. did you lose any power bubbles at 10?

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RegGuheert
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:22 am

Stoaty wrote:It's from the Leaf service manual.
It's not in the one I downloaded in March 2012. My MWI service manual says it is an April 2011 revision.

Does anyone know what revision contained the capacity bar table shown in the Wiki?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Carcus
Posts: 28
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:41 am

EdmondLeaf wrote:
Carcus wrote:
ravi100 wrote:In response to a question:

The car is garaged. It is rarely out of the garage for more than 2-3 hrs at a time.
Its primarily used to pick up and drop of our son at school, trips to the grocery store
etc. Our garage door is insulated and today for example its 102F outside
and 85F in the garage.
Might be interesting to get a thermometer and check the "usual suspects".
That is exactly what I did, I did not look very far:this is temp 1 ft above the close by road, ambient temp was 100F
6/24/2012 15:45 125.064F
6/24/2012 16:00 126.289F
6/24/2012 16:15 125.771F
6/24/2012 16:30 125.692F
6/24/2012 16:45 124.363F
6/24/2012 17:00 125.064F

Do not expose a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.

... and so it's not hard to imagine that a Leaf parked at a mall in Phoenix on a "nice" summer day could be sitting in a bath of 140 + deg air. Well into the "red bar" zone of the Leaf's battery temp gauge.
Kind of makes you wonder about the details of the Leaf battery temp monitoring system.
-- how many temp sensors are involved (just one, or are there several)?
--where is it (are they) placed (i.e. top of the pack, in between cells, bottom of the pack)?

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
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Location: Coastal LA

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:47 am

Stoaty wrote:
thankyouOB wrote:how does that work, if you lose one bar?
See the Leaf Wiki "Battery Capacity Behavior": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... em#Battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's from the Leaf service manual.
THE LOVE MY LEAF charging table shows loss of 8.5% not 15%.
I am not sure where you are getting this data.

Can someone please explain why the loss of one battery capacity bar due to degradation of the battery -- not usage on a single occasion -- equals loss of 15% of available power reserve?
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

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DaveEV
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Location: San Diego

Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:51 am

Carcus wrote:--how many temp sensors are involved (just one, or are there several)?
--where is it (are they) placed (i.e. top of the pack, in between cells, bottom of the pack)?
There are multiple (4 I believe Phil has said - details are in his LEAFSCAN thread somewhere and probably elsewhere) and they are distributed through the pack and appear to be designed to measure core pack temperature.

The modules themselves will conduct heat very well given their high metal content so the temperature probes should provide an accurate picture of battery pack temperature.

thankyouOB wrote:
Stoaty wrote:See the Leaf Wiki "Battery Capacity Behavior": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... em#Battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's from the Leaf service manual.
THE LOVE MY LEAF charging table shows loss of 8.5% not 15%.
I am not sure where you are getting this data.
You are mixing up the battery SOC meter with battery capacity meter. Tony's charts do not display any information on the battery capacity meter.

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