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TomT
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Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:30 am

Well, that's better than the dealership a few miles from, Mission Hills Nissan... They refused to even discuss it with me ("we know far more about the Leaf than you so just take our word for it"). I ultimately wound up having it done at Downtown L.A. Nissan... I have to be honest, based on my experiences with all but a couple of dealers (Fontana and Downtown), I'd think twice about buying ANY Nissan in the future...

I very rarely even look at Carwings so I can't comment on how much of an accuracy change it may have made...
drees wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:It's clear: with my dealership, you can lead them directly to the fix for your LEAF, but you can't make them fix it!
My dealership wasn't much better. Took at least a dozen emails back and forth to convince my tech to order the card and apply the update. Try a different dealer is all I can advise if you've hit a brick wall - perhaps call up 1-877-NO-GAS-EV to lodge a formal complaint? That seems to get movement when people have issues...
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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RegGuheert
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Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:25 am

drees wrote:Try a different dealer is all I can advise if you've hit a brick wall - perhaps call up 1-877-NO-GAS-EV to lodge a formal complaint? That seems to get movement when people have issues...
That's what I have done. I contacted 877-NO-GAS-EV and explained the issue and requested that they approve NTB11-041a for our vehicle. The lady was nice and said she needed to get approval. She called back and said that the issue has been escalated two more levels and it would be next week before they would have an anwser.

The real issue here is that Nissan did not include our vehicle in this NTB even though it fixes problems that exist in our car. But I've really had it with our dealer. I'll drive to the next city next time I need to go in.
TomT wrote:Well, that's better than the dealership a few miles from, Mission Hills Nissan... They refused to even discuss it with me ("we know far more about the Leaf than you so just take our word for it"). I ultimately wound up having it done at Downtown L.A. Nissan... I have to be honest, based on my experiences with all but a couple of dealers (Fontana and Downtown), I'd think twice about buying ANY Nissan in the future...
Yeah, Nissan is definitely not blowing my skirt up! We never had any of these issues with our Honda dealer. We bought the first HCH they got in April 2002 and things have gone smoothly for over 10 years, even though they were just learning about the car at that time.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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RegGuheert
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:05 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
drees wrote:Try a different dealer is all I can advise if you've hit a brick wall - perhaps call up 1-877-NO-GAS-EV to lodge a formal complaint? That seems to get movement when people have issues...
That's what I have done. I contacted 877-NO-GAS-EV and explained the issue and requested that they approve NTB11-041a for our vehicle. The lady was nice and said she needed to get approval. She called back and said that the issue has been escalated two more levels and it would be next week before they would have an anwser.
Well, Nissan finally applied NTB11-041a to our vehicle! It took corporate about three weeks to approve it and another three weeks to ship the SD card to my dealership. I dropped in on Friday and they had it in their parts department and agreed to reprogram it on the spot. They also did the one-year battery check while I was there (all 5 stars and still have 12 capacity bars fifteen months after manufacture).

One good thing is that the LEAF-certified technician leased one at the end of August and is now a big fan of the car. So things are looking up at the dealership also!

CarWings efficiency results from Saturday appear to match what was on the dash. It is now reporting the 4s that we actually get rather than the 6s and 7s that it used to report.

So, beginning in October I can start to get as attached to CarWings as Ed is!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:37 pm

RegGuheert wrote: ...CarWings efficiency results from Saturday appear to match what was on the dash. It is now reporting the 4s that we actually get rather than the 6s and 7s that it used to report.

So, beginning in October I can start to get as attached to CarWings as Ed is!
Congratulations on completing your odyssey!

Yes, Carwings should record and compile reports by "Trip", day, and month, the same m/kWh as your dash would (and couldn't-since you do not have memory there). IMO, however, it is the nav screen that is giving me my m/kWh numbers corresponding to miles driven. You may find that the CW regeneration kWh reports (example at thread below below) will be the most useful "new" data, giving you an entirely new view of your driving efficiency and kWh use.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now the bad news.

As you can also see at the link above, I am now virtually certain that all the kWh numbers underlying dash, nav screen, and CW reports and calculations share a common error in kWh use reporting, which has increased over time in my LEAF.
no condition is permanent

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RegGuheert
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:57 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Yes, Carwings should record and compile reports by "Trip", day, and month, the same m/kWh as your dash would (and couldn't-since you do not have memory there). IMO, however, it is the nav screen that is giving me my m/kWh numbers corresponding to miles driven. You may find that the CW regeneration kWh reports (example at thread below below) will be the most useful "new" data, giving you an entirely new view of your driving efficiency and kWh use.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the info! The "Electric Rate Simulation" (??!!) report looks cool!
edatoakrun wrote:Now the bad news.

As you can also see at the link above, I am now virtually certain that all the kWh numbers underlying dash, nav screen, and CW reports and calculations share a common error in kWh use reporting, which has increased over time in my LEAF.
Yes, I am aware of the issues here. But I am hopeful that these things are fixable under the vehicle warranty. If not, perhaps we can find some reasonable way to calibrate out the errors. At least I now get results which aren't complete nonsense. They are only partial nonsense! :lol:
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

edatoakrun
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:10 pm

[quote="RegGuheert" At least I now get results which aren't complete nonsense. They are only partial nonsense! :lol:[/quote]

One more thing.

Your earlier "nonsense" reports might not beso much so as you think.

IIRC, it always seemed to me that mine seemed like they might have read "off" by a constant coefficient, something close to 80%.

Unfortunately, I was "surprised" by the accuracy that came from the update, and never had a previous trip or trips logged accurately enough to compare to the (nearly) accurate (~2.5% miles driven error) post-update reports.

If you have trips or days of drives with all the m/kWh from dash/nav screen noted prior to the update, and repeat them now, you might figure out a way to recover data from the "nonsense".

Or maybe not...
no condition is permanent

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Boomer23
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:01 pm

MNL proves itself supremely useful again! I have my 2011 LEAF in for the 2yr check and I spoke with the LEAF Tech AND the Nissan engineer who's based at Connell Nissan. This was the second time that I'd mentioned Carwings inaccuracy, and was told that nothing was wrong. But when I mentioned NTB 11-041, they had something to refer to on their computer. I was just told that they will be installing the update, so maybe I'll now have accurate CW data. I hope it doesn't frack up something else on the car. :)

Thanks, folks.
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ttweed
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:43 am

Boomer23 wrote:I'll now have accurate CW data. I hope it doesn't frack up something else on the car. :)
I thought that this update had been applied to our car along with the voluntary NTB12-014 recall update a year ago, but looking at the service records and the diagnostic screens, as well as our CW data, it is obvious that the NTB-11-041 Telematics fix was not applied as we requested, perhaps because we never had any telecommunication problems with the Leaf. Before I go hassle the dealer to apply it now, I am still trying to understand the advantage of having the CW data be more accurate. I have never used CW for anything more than remote charging and CC preconditioning, which works fine and always has. If and when Nissan begins charging a monthly fee for the telematics service, unless it was an extremely nominal cost, I would abandon the service in a heartbeat and just accomplish those tasks manually instead of remotely.

At the moment, I am leaning towards the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" stance unless there is some practical advantage in having the update done and making the CW energy use data more accurate. As I understand it, the NTB-11-041 Telematics fix simply makes your CW energy usage figures match that of your dash and nav screen output (with possibly some 2.5% odometer error?) instead of inflating the reported m/kWh figures, as the old, non-updated CW algorithm does. Can someone please explain how they find this increased CW accuracy useful? Why not just depend on the nav screen output for this figure, if all the update does is make the CW number match it? How is the m/kWh number useful other than telling you how efficient your driving habits are? Chances are that even if you know you could be more efficient in throttle and brake application, or coasting technique, to become a better "hypermiler," you might not be able to change your habits significantly--that is the very nature of "habits," they are fairly well ingrained in your behavior, and unless there is a compelling reason to change them, and a concerted effort made over a long period of time, they persist. I have little interest in doing that myself, and I am pretty sure that telling my wife she should drive differently to be more efficient and perhaps gain a few miles of range would be like spitting into the wind. :D

I know that edatoakrun has claimed that the CW detailed energy usage figures can be used to calculate battery capacity degradation, but frankly, I have not been able to follow either his logic or methodology in doing so, and I am not all that concerned about the exact rate of degradation of our battery pack. It is what it is, not the least bit unexpected, and the car is still meeting our needs and will for quite some time to come. I don't really see how drilling down into the individual trip and mileage data that CW contains is more accurate, useful or necessary for this purpose, as ed claims. Isn't knowing that your m/kWh number has not changed substantially (i.e., your driving efficiency is the same), that the car used to go 77 miles on a full charge when new and now goes 70 over the same route enough to tell you that the pack has degraded 10% or so? What more do you need to know, from a practical standpoint? I don't understand how more accurate CW energy usage data is going to enhance the accuracy of this degradation estimate significantly, or increase the utility or enjoyment of the car, exactly. Can someone give me a compelling reason to have this update performed? What have you gotten out of it that you simply couldn't live without?

TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
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2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
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davewill
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:24 am

ttweed wrote:...Can someone please explain how they find this increased CW accuracy useful? Why not just depend on the nav screen output for this figure, if all the update does is make the CW number match it? How is the m/kWh number useful other than telling you how efficient your driving habits are? ...
I'm in exactly the same boat you are. The only thing I can figure is that if you're the kind who likes to keep records of this sort of thing, then it is sure handy to have CarWings keep them for you automatically. That way you can answer the pressing question of exactly how badly did the cold snap last month affect your economy, or did I do as well this February as I did February last year. As far as I'm concerned, it would be interesting to look at occasionally, but I wouldn't pay for it, and I'm not going to fight with the dealer to get it fixed.
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TomT
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Re: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:57 am

Unless you use carwings for data or actually have had the communications problem, no, you don't care.
davewill wrote:
ttweed wrote:...Can someone please explain how they find this increased CW accuracy useful? Why not just depend on the nav screen output for this figure, if all the update does is make the CW number match it? How is the m/kWh number useful other than telling you how efficient your driving habits are? ...
I'm in exactly the same boat you are. The only thing I can figure is that if you're the kind who likes to keep records of this sort of thing, then it is sure handy to have CarWings keep them for you automatically.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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