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surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:06 pm

Sorry to hear a about your Leaf, hopefully you will be able to get satisfactory resolution. Your nick is interesting. Sprechen Sie deutsch?

saintyohann
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:31 am
Delivery Date: 14 Sep 2011
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:15 pm

I speak barely any German and even less Norwegian, but the name is because of Norwegian heritage.

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Nekota
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:16 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2182
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:31 pm

I would ask Nissan for a data logger to capture the CAN messages and let an engineer at Nissan look at that data. I don't think it's a dealer fault but clearly something is wrong or the data logging will show what the user error is. The problem is getting a dialog with Nissan for an exceptional case and I would call Nissan customer support (1 877 664 2738) and get a case number started.
Res 20Apr2010 / Ordered 27Sep2010 / Delivered 12May2011

PV System

saintyohann
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:31 am
Delivery Date: 14 Sep 2011
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:47 pm

Again, I think they know what the issue is, they just don't have a fix yet.

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garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:57 pm

Strange problems that I think you are the only one to report.

What makes you think that Nissan knows what the problem is?

So, it is unlikely a problem with the basic software
update that many others also got.

It would seem to be a buggy update of your car, or
a malfunction in hardware, perhaps the CAN bus, a connector, etc.

Have you had any rodents around your car (maybe chewing wiring)?

Try to get a better description of each problem,
and the conditions that existed when it happened.

Are you able to recreate any one of these problems, for testing?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:01 pm

saintyohann wrote:We would actually go through BBB auto line arbitration, most likely no lawyer needed.

Tony, you can check out the car if you wish, but I can't meet you as I can't drive right now. I can do any day but Wednesday and I live in La Mesa.

I'll come by Tuesday mid morning. PM your address and a good time.

Tony

DannyAmes
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:25 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 467
Location: Brisbane CA

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:06 pm

How soon after did your car start to freak out after the updates were applied, like in minutes or days?
Has the dealership that performed these updates ever have problems with the equipment they use for the updates?
My schedule update had to be postponed because they had trouble with the update machine.
Do you know how long the procedure took and did they/technician let you know how it went? Mine took about an hour with no issues.

I maybe really off the wall here but think something corrupted yours during the process or their is a problem with the hardware now like the Leafs internal memory has now been over written or allowed to write code in an area its not suppose to and their unable to clear or purge and re-install or re-image because they do not have this procedure or advanced process documented.

I would hope Nissan will acknowledge your issue soon and expedite this to the next level of engineering support.

If not this maybe a black eye for Nissan.
Last edited by DannyAmes on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LeafDD - 100% Charge - Gids 266 - measured 6/25/13 (28,690 miles) 94.23% 12 Bars
Blue LEAF In service since 03/08/11 Plate "IM N EV"
Juice 4.5 kW PV 32 Sharp 167 W 2500 Sunnyboys 2005 E7

saintyohann
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:31 am
Delivery Date: 14 Sep 2011
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:28 pm

garygid wrote:What makes you think that Nissan knows what the problem is?

So, it is unlikely a problem with the basic software
update that many others also got.

It would seem to be a buggy update of your car, or
a malfunction in hardware, perhaps the CAN bus, a connector, etc.

Have you had any rodents around your car (maybe chewing wiring)?

Try to get a better description of each problem,
and the conditions that existed when it happened.

Are you able to recreate any one of these problems, for testing?
I'm pretty sure they know what the issue is because (these are in relation to the biggest issue, the unit going into a safe mode for about 30 minutes):

1) I was immediately given a work-around (the door open thing, which does work occasionally)
2) Being told they had seen this with some cars after doing the update on some Leafs (but it was implied that it only happened the first-time [started?] and the door thing fixed it and it never came back for anyone so customers never saw it, or just saw it once).
3) When describing it to Service writers or Nissan Corporate, they finish my sentences or ask very specific closed-ended questions that relate perfectly to the issue. So this issue only appears when I am in reverse on an incline. When going up or down the incline in reverse, as soon as I tap the accelerator the car goes into neutral, I start rolling downhill suddenly and the 30 minute timer starts until it will work normally again. So if I tell someone at Nissan the car jumps into neutral and he immediately asks if I was in Reverse on a hill, that's not a guess.
4) Nobody wanted to even test drive the car, they just ran their diagnostics and telling me it found nothing. I know the first dealership ran their test and I saw the almost 3 pages of fault codes, wrote some down, then they took them away from me and the service writer told me there were no codes. Only when I pressed him on the fact that I had seen the pages of codes, he said they were all un-related, and there was nothing wrong with the car.

They did check for rodents the last time I took it in, nothing.

It is hard to recreate, the "safe-mode" thing has only happened six times since April, everything else happens pretty often, but you have to use the car to see it.

saintyohann
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:31 am
Delivery Date: 14 Sep 2011
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:40 pm

DannyAmes wrote:How soon after did your car start to freak out after the updates were applied?
Has the dealership that performed these updates ever have problems with the equipment they use for the updates?
My schedule update had to be postponed because they had trouble with the update machine.
Do you know how long the procedure took and did they/technician let you know how it went? Mine took about an hour with no issues.

I maybe really off the wall here but think something corrupted yours during the process or their is a problem with the hardware now like the Leafs internal memory has now been over written or allowed to write code in an area its not suppose to and their unable to clear or purge and re-install or re-image because they do not have this procedure or advanced process documented.
The car started dropping bars when powered off almost immediately after the update. I charged to 100% at the Walgreens in Poway and drove 1.1 miles. The dash said 10 minutes to 100% (at 240V) and I powered off. 5 minutes later I turned on the car and I lost a bar and it said 1 hour of charging to full. I went into the dealership 3 times with questions in the month after the update, because of various weird things going on (Nav system freezing, re-booting, or windows freezing, loosing bars on power off, regen "bubbles" always available, loosing bars while off, forgetting my bluetooth phone once a week), but I never left the car because it was usually minor and I needed it.

When I took my car in, they said they had to download the update and install it, maybe 1.5-2 hrs. The car was done and washed in 40 minutes.

DannyAmes
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:25 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 467
Location: Brisbane CA

Re: Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:14 pm

I would start taking pictures or movies of when the navigation locks up and is non responsive and the sudden drop of bars and other strange behavior like pressing to power off the car and nothing happens.

Make the case again to Nissan CS make sure they advise you as to what actions they are taking to remedy this in partnership with the dealer and Nissan corporate.
Get them to provide an estimated time that your concerns will be addressed.

Call CS and find out who the acting CS manager is and tell about the lack of attention this matter is receiving and find out who the dealership owner is of where your updates took place and ask them directly to escalate the issue with Nissan USA.

Get ready to start going down the lemon law road if their response is unsatisfactory.
LeafDD - 100% Charge - Gids 266 - measured 6/25/13 (28,690 miles) 94.23% 12 Bars
Blue LEAF In service since 03/08/11 Plate "IM N EV"
Juice 4.5 kW PV 32 Sharp 167 W 2500 Sunnyboys 2005 E7

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