Stoaty
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:53 am

mkjayakumar wrote:All this for what..? Is this going to create solid evidence for the owners against Nissan in a court of law ? or is it just a media event to highlight the problem, to create negative publicity to put pressure on Nissan ?
It is going to give meaningful information about how much range these Leafs have lost relative to a control Leaf. That is the gold standard for measuring battery capacity loss. To the affected owners, it's the only thing that really matters.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:07 am

Stoaty wrote:
mkjayakumar wrote:All this for what..? Is this going to create solid evidence for the owners against Nissan in a court of law ? or is it just a media event to highlight the problem, to create negative publicity to put pressure on Nissan ?
It is going to give meaningful information about how much range these Leafs have lost relative to a control Leaf. That is the gold standard for measuring battery capacity loss. To the affected owners, it's the only thing that really matters.
Thank you, and a perfect response. A lot gets lost on this forum from the simple goal of ANY car; to get you from point A to point B, safely and reliably, and with dependability as to the overall performance of the car.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 am

I'll call them, but I bet it's not cheap, even if available.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:10 am

mark1313 wrote:Tony Williams my hat goes off to you for trying to organize this..

I would like to join in but Im not sure if I can because I work late at night and I live way on the west side of Phx (151ave Deervalley)
Not trying; we're going to do it!!!

Confirm you've lost 3 bars? Could I take your car on Friday and return it to you Saturday? Can you find another way to and from work that day?

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:25 am

Volusiano wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:Each car to yield an end results in number of miles, that means that the end reference has to be LBW or VLBW or something like that, right?

I recommend all the way to turtle.
While I understand the technical merit of going to turtle to eliminate any argument about how much is left, it's not practical for many reasons.
1. Safety: you don't want to reach turtle on a freeway test.

Safety is huge. The plan would be to be getting off the freeway between VLB and Turtle, but obviously those will just be educated guesses. A chase truck is my first choice. Cars could leave in such a way that not every car quits at the same time. There just won't be much traffic on a Saturday morning, as early as I intend to do the test. The temperature should be about 75F and 99F when I'm LONG gone. Nobody has a safety risk at 75F-80F. Bring water.

2. Inconvenience: it now has not become a simple 2-hour test like advertised before.

Well, it will be a little inconvenient for me, so I guess I'm not very sympathetic to that! I recommend that anybody who would be too inconvenienced not to do it.

3. If we have a dozen cars turn-out which all go to turtle and require free towing all at the same time,

Hopefully, we can get access to a truck and car trailer. I will rent the darn thing from UHAUL, if that's what it takes to get the job done. In addition, we each have Nissan tow service.

4. This test also implies that not just the cars with capacity loss go to turtle.

I don't see any concrete path to identifying range over a set course without doing just that. Sorry, but the cars have to go to turtle. If somebody is not comfortable with that, we can get somebody else to drive the car, or just don't participate.
I, for one, would be hesitant to participate if I have to run my car to turtle and wait in the heat for a tow truck that may take a very long time to come because there are dozens of LEAFs with the same fate at the same time waiting for a tow truck as well.
I hope we can find that middle ground that will offer the most participation, and maybe you guys can do that later (when there's 100+ cars to choose from). For this Sept 14 staging, and Sept 15 test, there are just some things that must be done to get the data from Scott's car and a control car. Everything above that is gravy.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:28 am

Herm wrote:Tony, my hat is always off to you..

Can the last few kWh be finished off by running the heater to turtle.. or does it have to be driven?
A heater isn't range. >>>NO CLIMATE CONTROL AT ALL<<<<

The test is simply to verify the range with the LEAF's faulty instrument, according to a Nissan EVP. I think he's completely full of sh*t, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if we can drive a 4 bar loser the same distance as a new car. Or even close to the same.

I'm betting on about 30%+ loss of range.

I know somebody will suggest it, but I'm not interested in how much energy it took to fill the cars back up. There are so many variables there (unless every car was filled with the same charger, at the same rate, from the same SOC start, and the same temperature... maybe).

EricBayArea
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:39 am

This is exciting. Please keep this thread updated when the actual event starts. I'm sure Nissan will be grateful too ;)
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RegGuheert
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:09 am

TonyWilliams wrote:We will use what we can get, and that might be any owner's new-ish car that can charge to 100% with 275 Gid or greater.
I'm wondering if ANY LEAFs will store 275 GIDs next Saturday in Phoenix. You may find that you will need to go lower than that.
RegGuheert
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shrink
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am

I think going to turtle safely is doable. If the end of the route is at the PADT quick charging station, then the cars can do loops in that research park until turtle. I think speed limit is only 25 mph on those roads and those are mainly office buildings. I don't anticipate much traffic on a Saturday morning.
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

Herm
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Re: Phoenix LEAF Range Test Saturday, Sept 15, 2012

Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:10 am

dont forget to videotape the event, seeing is believing

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