Bouldergramp
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 317621
Location: COLORADO

Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:04 pm


jjeff
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:19 pm

Interesting, while the Tesla LR won the total distance the Kia Niro seemed to be the biggest bang for the buck coming in a close second but quite a bit cheaper than other vehicles in it's range class.
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:21 pm

Niro was clear winner. It almost caught the Model 3 LR for 16K less dollars.

Leaf did ok, but not sure why it lost 4% overnight. It wasn’t “that” cold that the heater kicks on. I wonder if they didn’t leave it on the charger long enough to balance cells.
2019 SV Plus Silver
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100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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dmacarthur
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:38 am

What I thought was interesting was "actual range as percentage of advertised". Niro the clear winner, at 91 percent. Leaf was I think second at around 85%. Does make ya wonder- why are NONE of them getting what they advertise? at about 42 degrees, should not be using much heat.....
2015 Leaf sold
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knightmb
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:52 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:21 pm
Niro was clear winner. It almost caught the Model 3 LR for 16K less dollars.

Leaf did ok, but not sure why it lost 4% overnight. It wasn’t “that” cold that the heater kicks on. I wonder if they didn’t leave it on the charger long enough to balance cells.
That was my beef too. None of them were at 100%? The cold does not sap the charge like that in only a few hours. The extra 5% missing is more miles, plus having one follow behind another is giving the following vehicle a CD advantage to the leader. In a long rang test like this, those small bits add up to more miles. I didn't feel like science was taken to heart to at least make it a fair range test.

cwerdna
Posts: 9985
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:16 am

dmacarthur wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:38 am
What I thought was interesting was "actual range as percentage of advertised". Niro the clear winner, at 91 percent. Leaf was I think second at around 85%. Does make ya wonder- why are NONE of them getting what they advertise? at about 42 degrees, should not be using much heat.....
Haven't watched the video yet but 42 F is cold and will require using the power pig heaters.

About "advertised", please see the following regarding EPA tests:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052 ... es-feature - there are a couple pages
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml - ditto
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml - click thru all the tabs
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EP ... 4-2017.pdf - linked to from the earlier URL

I looked at the beginning of the video and saw a curious figure of 292 miles for i-Pace. That's the WLTP rating. We don't use that here. EPA range rating is 234 miles for i-Pace: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 3&id=39860. I don't know any details about the WLTP test but they're clearly inflated vs. EPA range ratings. Example is https://insideevs.com/news/335878/2018- ... ltp-cycle/. '18 Leaf gets 151 miles on EPA range test vs. 168 or 177 miles combined on WLTP. At least WLTP isn't as inflated as NEDC.

Back in 2013, the '13 Leaf could achieve 84 miles on a full charge on the EPA test (https://insideevs.com/news/317213/2013- ... gs-system/) but the Nissan exec at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=304180#p304180 (video is dead now) said 200 km (124 miles). Apparently, that was the NEDC rating. :roll:

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powersurge
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:58 am

There is a problem with the science of this "experiment"...

If they "all set temperature to XXX degrees), then there is no standardization... There is no standardization of a/c on or off, level of fan, or even differences in energy use of climate controls between cars.

It SHOULD have been.. No heat., a/c, radio or other accessories (maybe even no lights)..

It really doesn't matter because we cannot make shake or shack of all this information because they are all types of different vehicles. You don't run a hummer, an explorer, a Honda fit and a Prius and try to compare how far they go...

Bouldergramp
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 317621
Location: COLORADO

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:39 pm

It sounds fair to me:
"The test was performed by utilizing a system that included driving at the same speed on the same stretch of road at the same time. Each vehicle was put into its most energy-efficient setting and was operating with its air conditioning at 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The consistency showed there was no bias in the actual execution of the assessment, making it completely fair for all vehicles that were chosen to partake in the test.

Each vehicle was charged the night before the test. At the time the testing began, each vehicle held at least a 95% charge. While other variables like external temperature may have affected the performance of each vehicle, it was still an even playing field. By the end, Carwow would be able to tell electric car enthusiasts what vehicle was best suited for long-range driving."

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:11 pm

I agree it was a pretty solid test. I am sure driving styles as well as how the final 10-20 miles were driven (Leaf went through a heavy stop start cycle where Tesla rolled around in circles as an example), likely also could have impacted a few overall miles.

My assessment is that the Niro won on distance vs. battery and distance vs. cost. It was only a hair off the distance overall.

I would have liked to see the Leaf do another 10 miles, but 208 at 42F in SL configuration with the heat on was only 7 miles off of the EPA.

That said, Niro exceeded EPA by almost 20 miles...amazing.

The curious one was the Tesla, which came up 50 miles short of EPA in this set up. That's not a trivial difference. I would have been very curious to see how the SR+ would have done on the same test cycle.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

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