User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:49 am

Always remember that worn out tires are much more efficient than new tires. Thus, if you went from a worn out version of a given tire to a new version of the same tire, you would still take a not insignificant efficiency hit...
zeroco2 wrote:Well my Ecopia's lasted 25K so I just switched to Michelin Defenders and noticed a 10% range hit.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:55 am

Stanton wrote:
thankyouOB wrote: i still am down about 10%, though some of that could be battery aging.
You can't compare absolute range, you have to compare something like "m/kWh".
Doesn't matter if you use CarWings or calculate it yourself, just so long it's a consistent comparison.
Based on "m/kWh", I'm down closer to 6% after ~3000 miles.
i was using range per bar, but also m/kWh. the latter went from
upper fours (4.7-5 miles per bar down to 4.3-4.5 miles per bar).

roundtrip on 50 miles used to be 8 bars now it is 9 bars.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2150
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:47 am

thankyouOB wrote:
Stanton wrote:
thankyouOB wrote: i still am down about 10%, though some of that could be battery aging.
You can't compare absolute range, you have to compare something like "m/kWh".
Doesn't matter if you use CarWings or calculate it yourself, just so long it's a consistent comparison.
Based on "m/kWh", I'm down closer to 6% after ~3000 miles.
i was using range per bar, but also m/kWh. the latter went from
upper fours (4.7-5 miles per bar down to 4.3-4.5 miles per bar).

roundtrip on 50 miles used to be 8 bars now it is 9 bars.
So based on that data, your efficiency has dropped between 5-10%. I saw the same thing initially; I expect that will drift more towards the 5% (as opposed to 10%) figure after a few thousand miles. Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

User avatar
DaveEV
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6236
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Stanton wrote:Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).
Rolling resistance makes up a smaller percentage of energy used to travel at higher speeds than lower speeds, so that is expected.

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2150
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:24 am

drees wrote:
Stanton wrote:Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).
Rolling resistance makes up a smaller percentage of energy used to travel at higher speeds than lower speeds, so that is expected.
Now that makes sense: I'll buy that for a $1!
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

kensiko
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 03 Aug 2016
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:56 am

Michelin defender and mx4 are definitely good tires but they may not be called real LRR tires. Have a look at this PC post, really good reference: http://priuschat.com/threads/low-rollin ... ist.92778/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Leaf 2014 SV lease transfer -> Gone ! Sad a bit.
- Prius 2010 bought at 180000 km - Sold in Ontario !
- Tesla S60 2014 CPO
- Zero S 2013 for the fun to drive

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2150
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:32 am

kensiko wrote:Michelin defender and mx4 are definitely good tires but they may not be called real LRR tires. Have a look at this PC post, really good reference: http://priuschat.com/threads/low-rollin ... ist.92778/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Talk about information overload... :shock:

There's a couple of take-away's for me:
1) You're going to take a "hit" in m/kWh when going from old (worn out) tires to new tires...which should improve a bit over time. I can attest to that and have attempted to document (some of) my experience in this thread.
2) Seems like the "really good" LRR tires DON'T have mileage warranties (like the Ecopia's), while other LRR tires (like the Defender's) do. I have a problem spending $100+ on a tire WITHOUT a mileage warranty (not to mention ones that only last 20k miles :evil: ).

I have to assume that a manufacturer can't arbitrarily call a tire "LRR" without meeting some sort of spec. That doesn't mean it's the BEST LRR tire, but that's where threads like this one serve to educate on Leaf-specific data.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:55 am

CR tested LRR tires a while back. The Primacy MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
Stanton wrote:I have to assume that a manufacturer can't arbitrarily call a tire "LRR" without meeting some sort of spec. That doesn't mean it's the BEST LRR tire, but that's where threads like this one serve to educate on Leaf-specific data.
Last edited by TomT on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

wwhitney
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:10 am

TomT wrote:CR tested LRR tires a while back. The MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
"highest possible rolling resistance" = worst? or best?

Cheers, Wayne

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:35 am

Highest is best - a solid red circle...
wwhitney wrote:
TomT wrote:CR tested LRR tires a while back. The MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
"highest possible rolling resistance" = worst? or best?
Cheers, Wayne
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”