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Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:49 am
by TomT
Always remember that worn out tires are much more efficient than new tires. Thus, if you went from a worn out version of a given tire to a new version of the same tire, you would still take a not insignificant efficiency hit...
zeroco2 wrote:Well my Ecopia's lasted 25K so I just switched to Michelin Defenders and noticed a 10% range hit.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:55 am
by thankyouOB
Stanton wrote:
thankyouOB wrote: i still am down about 10%, though some of that could be battery aging.
You can't compare absolute range, you have to compare something like "m/kWh".
Doesn't matter if you use CarWings or calculate it yourself, just so long it's a consistent comparison.
Based on "m/kWh", I'm down closer to 6% after ~3000 miles.
i was using range per bar, but also m/kWh. the latter went from
upper fours (4.7-5 miles per bar down to 4.3-4.5 miles per bar).

roundtrip on 50 miles used to be 8 bars now it is 9 bars.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:47 am
by Stanton
thankyouOB wrote:
Stanton wrote:
thankyouOB wrote: i still am down about 10%, though some of that could be battery aging.
You can't compare absolute range, you have to compare something like "m/kWh".
Doesn't matter if you use CarWings or calculate it yourself, just so long it's a consistent comparison.
Based on "m/kWh", I'm down closer to 6% after ~3000 miles.
i was using range per bar, but also m/kWh. the latter went from
upper fours (4.7-5 miles per bar down to 4.3-4.5 miles per bar).

roundtrip on 50 miles used to be 8 bars now it is 9 bars.
So based on that data, your efficiency has dropped between 5-10%. I saw the same thing initially; I expect that will drift more towards the 5% (as opposed to 10%) figure after a few thousand miles. Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:16 pm
by DaveEV
Stanton wrote:Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).
Rolling resistance makes up a smaller percentage of energy used to travel at higher speeds than lower speeds, so that is expected.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:24 am
by Stanton
drees wrote:
Stanton wrote:Also, for some reason (which I can't figure), there seems to be LESS of a hit on the highway vs. around town (lower speed).
Rolling resistance makes up a smaller percentage of energy used to travel at higher speeds than lower speeds, so that is expected.
Now that makes sense: I'll buy that for a $1!

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:56 am
by kensiko
Michelin defender and mx4 are definitely good tires but they may not be called real LRR tires. Have a look at this PC post, really good reference: http://priuschat.com/threads/low-rollin ... ist.92778/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:32 am
by Stanton
kensiko wrote:Michelin defender and mx4 are definitely good tires but they may not be called real LRR tires. Have a look at this PC post, really good reference: http://priuschat.com/threads/low-rollin ... ist.92778/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Talk about information overload... :shock:

There's a couple of take-away's for me:
1) You're going to take a "hit" in m/kWh when going from old (worn out) tires to new tires...which should improve a bit over time. I can attest to that and have attempted to document (some of) my experience in this thread.
2) Seems like the "really good" LRR tires DON'T have mileage warranties (like the Ecopia's), while other LRR tires (like the Defender's) do. I have a problem spending $100+ on a tire WITHOUT a mileage warranty (not to mention ones that only last 20k miles :evil: ).

I have to assume that a manufacturer can't arbitrarily call a tire "LRR" without meeting some sort of spec. That doesn't mean it's the BEST LRR tire, but that's where threads like this one serve to educate on Leaf-specific data.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:55 am
by TomT
CR tested LRR tires a while back. The Primacy MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
Stanton wrote:I have to assume that a manufacturer can't arbitrarily call a tire "LRR" without meeting some sort of spec. That doesn't mean it's the BEST LRR tire, but that's where threads like this one serve to educate on Leaf-specific data.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:10 am
by wwhitney
TomT wrote:CR tested LRR tires a while back. The MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
"highest possible rolling resistance" = worst? or best?

Cheers, Wayne

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:35 am
by TomT
Highest is best - a solid red circle...
wwhitney wrote:
TomT wrote:CR tested LRR tires a while back. The MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
"highest possible rolling resistance" = worst? or best?
Cheers, Wayne