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Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:00 am
by dhanson865
wwhitney wrote:
TomT wrote:CR tested LRR tires a while back. The MXV4 got their highest possible rolling resistance rating...
"highest possible rolling resistance" = worst? or best?

Cheers, Wayne
Doesn't really matter too much either way as the MXV4 tires aren't the best or worst for rolling resistance in the market as a whole.

Keep in mind RR changes from tire to tire. You probably look at that and go so what, everything is different from one to another. The thing about tires is hard to put in a single sentence soundbite.

For starters the short version of "mxv4" could be any one of

Energy MXV4 Plus
Energy MXV4 S8
Primacy MXV4

Next the RR varies by "size" so there are 30 or rolling resistance values just for the Primacy MXV4

Look at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... imacy+MXV4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and see how on the specs tab only some of the sizes are listed as "Green X". The sizes that don't get the "Green X" designation have even worse rolling resistance than the ones that do but the ones with "Green X" still don't roll as easily as the Energy Saver A/S.

So which type and size of MXV4 did they test? which type and size of MXV4 would you get if you tried to buy a set?

It takes a lot of research and attention to detail to not get misleading information about tires.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:28 am
by TomT
They were the Primacy MXV4... I'd have to find the article again to tell you what size they tested... What I'd buy - and did - was the same size that came on the Leaf...
dhanson865 wrote:So which type and size of MXV4 did they test? which type and size of MXV4 would you get if you tried to buy a set?

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:49 am
by leafwing
Stanton wrote:
KJD wrote:
Stanton wrote:
With the Michelin Defenders can you see any difference in the miles/KWH numbers ?
After a few days of driving, the answer is definitely yes: I'm seeing 10+% WORSE range out of the Defenders (low 4's vs. high 4's). While I expected some (at least temporary) drop in range since the Ecopia's were so worn, I didn't expect this much; at least I can track things in CarWings. The fact is I'm trading some m/kWh for longevity: there was no way I was going to buy another set of tires to only last 20k miles. While I don't expect the Defenders to out-last their warranty, at least you get some credit towards the next set.

I would be interested to hear other's experience with these tires. I have also read they do much better with higher temps AND age--both of which I'll be experiencing in the months to come.

I should have read this thread before buying the Michelin Defender. The efficiency suffers a lot. 5.2 to 5.4 m/kw is my daily average with AC; after after installing the MD, it is 4 to 4.2 m/k without AC.
Would the range get better after a while or not?

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:59 am
by TomT
Everything else being equal, new tires will always be the least efficient. Tires are most efficient just before they wear out.
leafwing wrote:Would the range get better after a while or not?

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:37 pm
by Stanton
leafwing wrote: I should have read this thread before buying the Michelin Defender. The efficiency suffers a lot. 5.2 to 5.4 m/kw is my daily average with AC; after after installing the MD, it is 4 to 4.2 m/k without AC.
Would the range get better after a while or not?
The short answer is yes, although you seem to be >10% (did you check alignment?). Go back and look at some of my later posts, but I'm seeing a (permanent) 5+% worse m/k with the Defenders. However, they ride/handle great.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:17 pm
by leafwing
Stanton wrote:
leafwing wrote: I should have read this thread before buying the Michelin Defender. The efficiency suffers a lot. 5.2 to 5.4 m/kw is my daily average with AC; after after installing the MD, it is 4 to 4.2 m/k without AC.
Would the range get better after a while or not?
The short answer is yes, although you seem to be >10% (did you check alignment?). Go back and look at some of my later posts, but I'm seeing a (permanent) 5+% worse m/k with the Defenders. However, they ride/handle great.
I like the way they handle, but with two lost capacity bars, 10% decrease (or 5% permanent) doesn't sound good.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:29 am
by Stanton
10k mile update: I'm now getting nearly the same m/kW as I was with the stock Ecopia's (and I have to admit I didn't think I ever would). I've been driving the same route to/from work for years, and now with the summer "bump" in m/kW I'm amazed at the 5+ numbers I'm getting again (I got to work this morning @ 5.5!). In fact, I'm so impressed with the ride/handling of the Defenders that I put a set on one of my other cars (exact same tire size)!

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:52 am
by mwalsh
Seen absolutely NO efficiency recovery whatsoever with the MXV4s. Still stuck at 4.2m/kWh after 9500 miles of use. Still like the tires better though.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:03 pm
by rogersleaf
mwalsh wrote:Seen absolutely NO efficiency recovery whatsoever with the MXV4s. Still stuck at 4.2m/kWh after 9500 miles of use. Still like the tires better though.
Have a hunch you won't see improvement in mileage. I put a set of MXV4's on an '08 Honda Civic Coupe. Found them relatively sticky on the road and made a huge difference in ride, road noise and traction in all weather conditions over the factory Bridgestone EL-400's that came on the Civic. I always suspected a slight drop in fuel mileage but was unable to determine if it was the tire attributes or that the Civic could now be driven like it was stolen without loosing traction.

Re: Replaced Ecopia's with Michelin Defenders

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:17 am
by mwalsh
mwalsh wrote:Seen absolutely NO efficiency recovery whatsoever with the MXV4s. Still stuck at 4.2m/kWh after 9500 miles of use. Still like the tires better though.
Finally starting to see my efficiency creep up again, after I'd all but given up on the idea. Just noticed this morning that I'm now at 4.4m/kWh, with another 2500 miles on the tires.

No idea if I'll get back to the 4.7m/kWh I was eventually getting with the Ecopias though.