edatoakrun
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LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:29 pm

I thought the test results below might be worth a new thread since, AFAIK, these results have not been posted on MNL before, and no reputable test prior to this has correlated range at 45, 60 and 70 mph (constant) with measured kwh use, both DC out of the battery and AC from the EVSE to recharge, as well as charge time for the L2 recharge.

So there are many reference points in these documents for comparison, for any who have used various methods to try to gauge capacity.

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is unfortunate that the test vehicle was not “new”, but the another PDF of the static capacity test here:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryleaf0356.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indicates the miles were 6,696 miles on 2011 LEAF ...00356 on that test date, May 5 2012.

Source info, Idaho National Laboratory:

http://avt.inel.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both the range and capacity reports on this car may, I suspect, lead some to conclude this LEAF must have been severely “degraded” at the time the tests were done...

Nothing very surprising to me, in the recharge capacity/time results, which look fairly close to those from my LEAF, both today and (very close to the same as) ~21 months ago when I first began my own capacity and range tests.

I have assumed my LEAF would probably go farther in any of the constant speed range tests (only 65.3 miles at 60 mph?) but without a reference that included battery temperatures, I was never tempted to go to the extreme inconvenience those tests would entail.

Maybe I will now.
no condition is permanent

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:45 pm

great info but cant help but wonder why test a degraded vehicle? why not test a new one? charge out was in the 17 kwh range so its lost over 15%
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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TonyWilliams
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:54 pm

edatoakrun wrote:I thought the test results below might be worth a new thread since, AFAIK, these results have not been posted on MNL before, and no reputable test prior to this has correlated range....

I was never tempted to go to the extreme inconvenience those tests would entail...
Yep, the best you do is complain.

edatoakrun
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:22 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:great info but cant help but wonder why test a degraded vehicle? why not test a new one? charge out was in the 17 kwh range so its lost over 15%
Actually, The varying results reported, averaging ~18.3 kWh DC and ~21.5 KWH AC, seem a close match to the most recent averages from Argonne:
Values are based on
13 level 2 battery
charge events from
completely depleted
to fully charged
Measurement point Average value
A) Wall Plug energy 21.722 AC kWh
C) DC energy to pack 18.529 DC kWh
E) DC Test energy * 17.957 DC kWh
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/D3/da ... 101212.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I think your assumption that "...its lost over 15%..." could be based on unrealistic expectations of "new" capacity at a given temperature, and/or the variable recharge capacity allowed by the LEAF BMS.
no condition is permanent

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DaveEV
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:58 pm

Lots of good data in there, thanks for finding it. Some notes:

Sure looks like the pack in this car when tested is down 13% in capacity - the car was probably just over 1 year old having been tested in May 12 with VIN 356 - one of the first cars delivered to the US.

Can see why Nissan doesn't restrict power until turtle - the pack can supply 125 kW even when nearly completely discharged.

Don't look at the BMW Mini-E test results. What an extra 10 kWh of usable battery capacity will do for range will make you cry in comparison with the LEAF.

Also don't look at the Volt test results for either 2011 or 2013. The increase in capacity for 2013 GM announced as a result of chemistry tweaks was real. The 2011 lost very little of it's rated battery capacity (2.5%) despite having a similar number of miles and age as the LEAF that was tested. The 2013 was rated above capacity - but appears to be a bit newer. Both packs are capable of higher pulse charge/discharge rates than the LEAF battery despite being a much smaller pack thanks to having lower internal resistance. In terms of weight, the Volt pack weighs the same per kWh.

Interesting fact: The LEAF uses less power at 45 mph than the Volt (9.2 kW vs 10.1 kW). At 70 mph they are basically the same, but the Volt edges out the LEAF (22.8 kW vs 22.7 kW). The Volt is clearly more aerodynamic.

jpa2825
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:03 am

Can anyone provide an Executive Summary for Dummies? Avg. m/kWh at 45, 60 & 70 mph maybe?
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Sublime
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:05 am

jpa2825 wrote:Can anyone provide an Executive Summary for Dummies? Avg. m/kWh at 45, 60 & 70 mph maybe?
From the battery (from the wall):
45mph = 4.85mi/kWh (3.94mi/kWh)
60mph = 3.70mi/kWh (3.04mi/kWh)
70mph = 2.92mi/kWh (2.48mi/kWh)

edatoakrun
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:21 am

Sublime wrote:
jpa2825 wrote:Can anyone provide an Executive Summary for Dummies? Avg. m/kWh at 45, 60 & 70 mph maybe?
From the battery (from the wall):
45mph = 4.85mi/kWh (3.94mi/kWh)
60mph = 3.70mi/kWh (3.04mi/kWh)
70mph = 2.92mi/kWh (2.48mi/kWh)
I was about to do that, thanks!

IMO, this is some of the most interesting data from this report, that the m/kWh seemed to test out considerably lower than that most have guessed.

drees

Lots of good data in there, thanks for finding it. Some notes:

Sure looks like the pack in this car when tested is down 13% in capacity - the car was probably just over 1 year old having been tested in May 12 with VIN 356 - one of the first cars delivered to the US...
Which is ~exactly what the LEAF app is now showing for my car, ~27 months, in a fairly warm climate, and ~19,000 fairly hard miles, from the factory.

But as I've mentioned before, if my LEAF ever actually had (or more precisely, allowed me to access) "100%" capacity (which I now doubt) the large majority of the loss seems to have occurred in only the first few months and few thousand miles before I began collecting range and (unfortunately, rather skimpy in the early months) recharge capacity data.
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ERG4ALL
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:51 am

The first exhibit states regarding the battery, "Manufacturer: Automotive Energy Supply Corporation". Is that some subsidiary of Nissan? I thought Nissan made its own batteries.
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DaveEV
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:07 am

ERG4ALL wrote:The first exhibit states regarding the battery, "Manufacturer: Automotive Energy Supply Corporation". Is that some subsidiary of Nissan? I thought Nissan made its own batteries.
AESC is a joint venture between Nissan and NEC Group.

http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/aboutus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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