edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
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AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:03 pm

I just noticed the first results for the AVTA fleet of four 2013 LEAFs has been posted.

Individual inks to the subjects below are here:

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2013 NISSAN LEAF
•Baseline Performance Testing
•Fleet Testing Fuel Economy
•Battery Testing
VIN 0646, VIN 5045, VIN 7885, VIN 9270
•Maintenance History
VIN 5045
Remember to consider the varying test temperatures when comparing the 2011 LEAF range/efficiency results, here:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To the 2013 results, here:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2013nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:39 am

X post summary of initial capacity and first degradation report:
Initial capacity (tested at ~500 miles) ranging from 23.6 to 24.6 kWh, averaging 24.2.

Degradation after ~4k miles and 3-4 months, January to May (apparently) in Phoenix AZ.

0.8 kWh (~3%) average actual capacity loss (from 0.6 to 1.0 kWh loss, 23.1 to 23.6 remaining) to 23.4 kWh average.

The fourth 2013 tested, which has only 20.8 capacity at its initial test after 6,258 miles is a mystery to me.

It has a much lower serial #, but age alone (unless driven hard during the previous Phoenix Summer?) would not seem to explain the much lower kWh.

Any one know the build date for 1N4AZ0CP0DC405045?

I guess the good news is that that 23.4 average kWh remaining for the other three, after considerable time and miles driven, is the same 23.4 kWh that the AVTA tests found average "new" capacity for its four car sample of 2012 LEAFs.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 88#p400788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Moof
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:24 pm

Fascinating to see ~25% degradation in 18 months under carefully controlled conditions for the 2012 fleet. 100% DC fast charging showed only slightly worse degradation compared to all L2 (27.2% vs. 25.1% loss).
2011 Cayenne Red bought used with 30k miles, manufacture data of 5/2011
42k miles 82% SOH 11 bars 218 GIDs at full charge
Running with Michelin Premier A/S with 42 psi for 10k miles

Reddy
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:24 pm

Article suggests quick discharging is not as damaging as we might have thought:
https://transportevolved.com/2014/09/30 ... tery-life/
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

edatoakrun
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:24 am

Continuing from:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
edatoakrun wrote:
NasGoreList wrote:obviously these tests need to be done side by side to minimize the temperature differences, which have significant impact on battery capacity and performance... find it hard that leaf can only do 60 miles at 60mph
Well, actually it also got ~1.7 more miles from ~0.5 kWh in accelerating and decelerating, ~62.4 miles in total

There are many difficulties in "constant speed" range/efficiency testing, the fact that it is literally impossible, being just one of them.

I think a lot of the exaggerated range claims for BEVs at "constant speed" are due to conflating average speed over the entire range test, with the maximum speed, which is only achieved for some part of the entire drive.

Looks like AVTA started to add steady-speed dyno testing in 2013, which allows you to use efficiency at speed to find the calculated theoretical constant-speed, constant temperature, efficiency and range.

Below for 2013 LEAF:
DYNAMOMETER TESTING

Energy Consumption at Steady-State Speed, 0% Grade
10 mph
133.4 Wh/mi
50 mph
236.0 Wh/mi
20 mph
147.1 Wh/mi
60 mph
285.4 Wh/mi
30 mph
168.0 Wh/mi
70 mph
343.8 Wh/mi
40 mph
197.6 Wh/mi
80 mph
397.8 Wh/mi
More on dyno testing here:

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/D3/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I understand (and calculate) correctly, this works out to be ~65 range miles at ~75F, assuming the LBC would allow the same ~18.5 kWh from the battery pack during that test, as it did on the 60 mph (at ~57 F) road test, and if the LEAF was catapulted to 60 mph at the beginning of the test, and the LBC allowed the LEAF to continue at speed a bit further into turtle mode.

Note this was also on a post-“break-in mileage of between 4,000 to 6,000 miles" LEAF, and this was the lowest kWh use allowed, out of three constant-speed tests, between 18.5 kWh and 19.2 kWh.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:55 pm

Look at the reduction in power use at 60MPH between the 2011 and the 2013.
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edatoakrun
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:44 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
NasGoreList wrote:obviously these tests need to be done side by side to minimize the temperature differences, which have significant impact on battery capacity and performance... find it hard that leaf can only do 60 miles at 60mph
completely agree. In fact, these results are so far from my reality, I consider them to be completely useless
above from off-topic thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you folks considered the possibility that your own reality may be the problem here?

If your reality is distorted by acceptance of your own LBC (gid) data as reality, and you immerse yourself in a constant flow of the same inaccurate data from others here on MNL, I can understand why these AVTA results may not seem real to you, not unlike the way that so many of those who watch a lot of Fox News seem to find it so easy to reject the reality of Anthropogenic Global Heating.

The AVTA reports definitely seem real to me, and I find them very useful in understanding my own LEAFs range, capacity, and how each have changed over time.

There are more details from the AVTA, not only for the LEAF, but also for the other BEVs and PHEVs that they have tested, that could be useful. but the 20+ years of results below seem to show considerable competence, and the results of these tests are consistent with tests on the same vehicles, conducted by other competent agencies and parties.

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://avt.inl.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What seems to me to be clearly inconsistent with reality, are the contradictory opinions on LEAF efficiency, battery capacity, and range expressed by several self-appointed LEAF experts on this thread almost two years ago, when we only had the first LEAF results from AVTA:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While it might have been plausible back in 2013 to believe the claims by those on that thread that the AVTA could have erred in that one test sequence, the series of tests since then, not only on the LEAF, but with the comparative results of capacity, efficiency, and range from the Focus E and Volt, IMO, clearly indicate the reality of those results.
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:49 pm

A few more capacity tests (ICD 2) have been posted, for only two (VIN 5045, VIN 7885) of the four 2013's so far, and they are, IMO, not pretty to look at:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryLeaf5045.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryLeaf7885.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least these two 2013's seem be losing capacity (as a function of miles driven) even faster, on average, than the 2012's in the previous torture test:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/energystorage/DC ... et_EOT.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, if some of the later 2013 LEAF batteries were improved over 2011-2012, these two packs sure don't look to me like they made the cut.

Anyone able to estimate production dates of the four 2013's from the vin #'s?
VIN 0646, VIN 5045, VIN 7885, VIN 9270
BTW, for some reason the AVTA put ~twice the miles on these four 2013 LEAFs Between March and July, as the rest of the year, which probably had some deleterious effects on capacity by increasing battery temperatures:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/ar2013NissanLeafBEV.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hopefully, we'll eventually get battery temperatures, charging practices, and other data that might give a more complete view of what's going on with these four LEAFs.

All ATVA BEV testing links here:

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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dhanson865
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:14 pm

horrible copy pasta there ed.

Let me sort that data for people that don't want to bother looking at out of order data
Energy Consumption at Steady-State Speed, 0% Grade
10 mph
133.4 Wh/mi AKA 7.5 miles/kWh

20 mph
147.1 Wh/mi AKA 6.8 miles/kWh

30 mph
168.0 Wh/mi AKA 5.9 miles/kWh

40 mph
197.6 Wh/mi AKA 5.1 miles/kWh

50 mph
236.0 Wh/mi AKA 4.2 miles/kWh

60 mph
285.4 Wh/mi AKA 3.5 miles/kWh

70 mph
343.8 Wh/mi AKA 2.9 miles/kWh

80 mph
397.8 Wh/mi AKA 2.5 miles/kWh
and it's Dyno data so it doesn't do real world.

I guess they also did the testing at 36 PSI with ecopias but I don't see mention of that.
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RegGuheert
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Re: AVTA capacity/range/efficiency tests of four 2013 LEAFs

Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:55 am

edatoakrun wrote:Anyone able to estimate production dates of the four 2013's from the vin #'s?
VIN 0646, VIN 5045, VIN 7885, VIN 9270
You really need to use the last six digits of the VIN if you want to possibly figure out the manufacturing date:

Code: Select all

| VIN Number | Odo @ BOT | Capacity at BOT |
| VIN 405045 |  6,258 mi |      56.9 Ah    |
| VIN 417885 |    562 mi |      65.5 Ah    |
| VIN 419270 |    493 mi |      67.1 Ah    |
| VIN 420646 |    494 mi |      65.8 Ah    |
Note that the oldest 2013 came in with more miles and much lower battery capacity than the other three and has continued to drop, now at 49.3 Ah after a bit over 15,468 miles. VIN 417885 has lost more capacity since the start of the test, bit it still has 55.6 Ah remaining after 15,736 miles.

I agree with Ed: These numbers don't look very good.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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