jdcbomb
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2015

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:31 am

Now been about 28 days since the first TCU "upgrade" and 21 days since the second replacement. Still not working after even an escalated case with Nissan Consumer Affairs, but I do have a case manager giving me updates every 2 days or so.

Dealership service team (NC) reported they did these replacements on 80 vehicles. Mine is 1 of 5 vehicles that continue to not work. A full refund has been offered, and is in process. If this a representative population, it appears about 15 pct of Leafs are experiencing this issue.

I happened to run into the regional Nissan tech representative and he personally took my case and will also be following up with it. I explained to him the different battery theories and the low voltage hypothesis. He seemed skeptical but he did take notes, indicating that a fault code would have resulted. We'll see what happens.
2018 SL - In Service 2019 JUN - 2020 APR 94.3 SOH
2018 SV - In Service 2019 JAN - 2020 APR 92.0 SOH
2013 SL - In Service 2013 FEB, Sold 2018 JUN (50,050 mi) - 4 Bars Lost (44,255 mi)
Location: Raleigh, NC

VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:33 am

I drove down to turtle yesterday because I was forced to run the defroster at max to deal with the weather. I discovered that when at very low battery warning the main pack will no longer continuously power the 12v battery and will instead pulse it periodically.

My 12v system voltage dropped to about 12.3-12.4 volts. No warning lights of any kind came on. Guess what, my Carwings stopped responding right then and there in the driveway at home. Plugged in the car and ensured 12v battery was charging, went back out to the car 1 hour later, pressed "reset all Carwings settings" and then entered my username and password again. 10 minutes later it was working again.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

jdcbomb
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2015

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:14 am

When I mentioned a fault code for the battery, I meant the diagnostic equipment they use to check the car. It is certainly possible that their diagnostics are not setup to check for voltage dropping to 12.3...but I guess I'll find out soon from the case team.

So assuming my main traction battery is charged to 100 pct...wouldnt that also maintain the car battery at sufficient voltage?

Or if the car battery is too old, then it just does not maintain the right level of voltage ever again?
2018 SL - In Service 2019 JUN - 2020 APR 94.3 SOH
2018 SV - In Service 2019 JAN - 2020 APR 92.0 SOH
2013 SL - In Service 2013 FEB, Sold 2018 JUN (50,050 mi) - 4 Bars Lost (44,255 mi)
Location: Raleigh, NC

VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:44 am

There are probably a few things going on. Firstly when you plug in, the mainpack starts charging and also the 12v battery gets charged at 14.4v. If you leave the car plugged in after the charge is complete, it will no longer supply power to the 12v for as long as it's plugged in no matter what. So if you leave your car plugged in all weekend and don't drive it then you may have a weak 12v when you try to drive it. If you leave the car unplugged it will periodically charge the 12v from the main pack, though this could only be a maintainer charge and not get the battery much above 13v.

Then there is the behavior of the charging scheme that leads to the 12v lead acid battery becoming weak in the first place described here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22752

And on top of that it is quite normal to see 12.4 volts on the 12v system when using high heater, wipers, heated seats, etc. in normal day to day driving even with a healthy 12v battery, and it seems like the car was designed around those voltages because nothing else is affected. Then it's also winter time and low temperatures will drop the voltage of even a healthy battery by a few points.

It is like clockwork. I will make a video where I film a multimeter reading the 12v system voltage. I'll have the car switched off and I will use a lamp or something to slowly drain the 12v battery. The whole time I will constantly ping Carwings with my phone, we will see the voltage it stops responding. I am deep in this 12v rabbit hole and going deeper, but luckily it's warm and pre-heated :D
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

juice13
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:30 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2016
Location: NC - Triangle

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:54 am

Just a quick note to add another successful 3G upgrade to the list. Carwings responded on the third day after installation and after a full day of sitting in a strong signal area (not the house).

3G Signal is stronger in our driveway (worked once in a year before, works 9/10 times now in the same spot) so I'm happy with that.

Hoping someone figures out how to connect this up to the ATT microcell so I can use it in the garage!
2013 Leaf SV QC/LED and Premium. 12 bars (apprx 87%SOH) @28k miles.

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2280
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:47 pm

jstoos wrote: (3) I suspect that the up and down nature of our NissanConnect experience usually has more to do with what is going on at their end, and that may not even be under Nissan's control but some third party company which would explain the poor communication.
I suspect this is closest to the truth. There are 2 things that have to happen even if the TCU/modem upgrade is properly installed:
1) AT&T has to activate the modem SIM on their network
2) Nissan's server/network must be "up" (and we all know from day 1 with our Leaf this is not always the case)
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

arnis
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:52 pm

VitaminJ wrote:There are probably a few things going on. Firstly when you plug in, the mainpack starts charging and also the 12v battery gets charged at 14.4v. If you leave the car plugged in after the charge is complete, it will no longer supply power to the 12v for as long as it's plugged in no matter what. So if you leave your car plugged in all weekend and don't drive it then you may have a weak 12v when you try to drive it. If you leave the car unplugged it will periodically charge the 12v from the main pack, though this could only be a maintainer charge and not get the battery much above 13v.

Then there is the behavior of the charging scheme that leads to the 12v lead acid battery becoming weak in the first place described here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22752

And on top of that it is quite normal to see 12.4 volts on the 12v system when using high heater, wipers, heated seats, etc. in normal day to day driving even with a healthy 12v battery, and it seems like the car was designed around those voltages because nothing else is affected. Then it's also winter time and low temperatures will drop the voltage of even a healthy battery by a few points.

It is like clockwork. I will make a video where I film a multimeter reading the 12v system voltage. I'll have the car switched off and I will use a lamp or something to slowly drain the 12v battery. The whole time I will constantly ping Carwings with my phone, we will see the voltage it stops responding. I am deep in this 12v rabbit hole and going deeper, but luckily it's warm and pre-heated :D
Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.

All equipment is designed to run between 11.5-15.5V. Some stuff works down to 8V (Leaf doesn't have that, glow plugs, starter motor etc).
You can turn on the headlights while Leaf off. Will drain the 12V.
TCU will definitely work at 11.5V. Depending on load and temperature, this might mean 12V battery is around 5-15% charged. Which is very low. But should be enough to re-engage contactors.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:26 pm

arnis wrote: Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.
Mine doesn't. I have been driving around all day today watching Leaf Spy and sometimes it is 14.56v but most of the time it is 12.96v. It is -5C today. I was just on the CHAdeMO for 30 mins and for the whole charge it was at 14.56v, I had the car in ready mode with heater and audio running. Once the charging stopped the car remained in ready mode, but voltage immediately dropped to 12.1v (all load on battery no load on DC-DC converter) until I unplugged CHAdeMO and re-started car. Guess what Carwings stopped working right then, it timed out. During the charge I had updated Carwings twice. Then when the voltage dropped to 12.1v I tried updating again and it timed out. It still doesn't work even now that I drove around for another 45 minutes and the 12 battery is well over 13v. I just parked 5 minutes ago so this is fresh on my mind.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:06 pm

I just went out to the car a few minutes ago and this is what I know:

Once the 12v system drops below a certain point the TCU malfunctions. In-car updating works, but out-of-car apps don't work. It doesn't matter if the 12v system comes back up to the right voltage afterwards, either. Once it gets into that state it is "stuck."

To "un-stick" I have simplified the procedure. There is no need to disconnect the battery terminal. All that is needed is to turn on the car ready to drive, press Carwings, Settings, and choose Reset all Carwings Settings. Make sure it actually does it, sometimes it says telematics are busy. Once that is complete, simply go to Sign In, and sign in again using the username and password Nissan gave you.

After that it works again, until the 12v system drops too low...


This is a screenshot I took that has the info from the last time I tried to ping Carwings after my voltage dropped to 12.1v:
Image


This is a screenshot I took about 5 minutes after I reset my Carwings data:
Image


I have a 8/2013 SV with the 3G TCU update. I am using Leaf Spy Pro with a Konnwei KW902 OBD-II adapter to measure 12v system voltage. What works for my car might not work for every car but it is 100% repeatable for me.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

arnis
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:56 pm

VitaminJ wrote:
arnis wrote: Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.
Mine doesn't. I have been driving around all day today watching Leaf Spy and sometimes it is 14.56v but most of the time it is 12.96v. It is -5C today. I was just on the CHAdeMO for 30 mins and for the whole charge it was at 14.56v, I had the car in ready mode with heater and audio running. Once the charging stopped the car remained in ready mode, but voltage immediately dropped to 12.1v (all load on battery no load on DC-DC converter) until I unplugged CHAdeMO and re-started car. Guess what Carwings stopped working right then, it timed out. During the charge I had updated Carwings twice. Then when the voltage dropped to 12.1v I tried updating again and it timed out. It still doesn't work even now that I drove around for another 45 minutes and the 12 battery is well over 13v. I just parked 5 minutes ago so this is fresh on my mind.
If you have a plug inserted vehicle does NOT engage READY. (green car symbol with arrows).
But it does engage contactor and therefore ACC mode is available with DC-DC converter enabled.
AS SOON as charging stops contactor is disabled. This means DC-DC converter is killed.

Interesting. At -5C 2014 Leaf definitely keeps voltage always at 14.5V. Actually the current sensor must be below +3C, not outside temperature sensor. If car was stored in warm garage, that means 12V battery is also warm. That warmth is transferred to current sensor on negative terminal. This is exactly how it was designed to work.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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