Train
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:53 pm

Just plugging into someone else's outlet (commercial or private), without the consent of the owner, management or municipality regardless of how little it costs is inconsiderate. How would anyone here feel if someone just plugged into one of your home exterior outlets? You pull in from work and there's an extension cord going from your front porch to someone's hedgetrimmers. "Hey Bill, just needed a little 'lectricity, I'll be done in a second."

I don't think it matters how little it costs, it isn't your parking garage. Be polite and ask permission first.

Don't know if it's considered theft but if you do it without permission, I would think it to be disrespectful and selfish.

Smidge204
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:41 pm

Carlos wrote:"This case is a perfect of how illegal marijuana dispensaries spawn additional crimes,"
District Attorney Steve Cooley said in a statement.
Solution: Legalize pot :mrgreen: As a legitimate business they'll get their own utilities, pay their own bills, and pay taxes.
Train wrote:How would anyone here feel if someone just plugged into one of your home exterior outlets?
Joke's on them - it's on a switch :)

But I agree - making a reasonable attempt to ask first is the very least you could do. However, if the outlet is attached to a business that I'm patronizing I'd feel much less guilty about it. Not quite entitled but at least I'm indirectly compensating them for it.
=Smidge=

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:57 pm

Using power from an outlet without asking is stealing plain and simple, it cost that business per kwh, it's not free. The outlets are not there to charge an EV they are for private business use. Justifying it's use as a patron is flat wrong, as wrong as stealing items from their inventory. In an emergency with no options if one used an outlet one should tell the business and offer to pay for the power. When I go to a gas station and buy gum it does not entitle me the right to take gas from a pump that may not be reset. For those that do this please don't justify it as not stealing, it's not your power and you did not pay for it, EVs do not come with an entitlement pass so let's not give them a bad name.

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Rokeby
Posts: 89
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Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Ballamer, Merlin

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:11 pm

There is probably some legal precedence, and I'll bet the rights
of the provider of what comes out of the outlet come first,
the owner of the outlet second, and the unauthorized taker/user
a distant third. (Excepting some life or death immediate danger.)

Is opportunistically plugging into a receptacle for electricity
any different than;
- downloading music?
- watching cable TV if you haven't paid for it?
- taking water from a hose?
- using a public phone with a missing coin door (archaic :D )

I can't see where ,"I got mine (electric car)" can be morally
converted into, "And now I'm gonna take yours (resource)."

Honesty is what you do when you think someone is watching you
-- Note: May or may not include "God" and/or ancestors.

Character is what you do when you know no one is watching.
Last edited by Rokeby on Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:20 pm

Rokeby wrote:There is probably some legal precedence, and I'll bet the rights
of the provider of what comes out of the outlet come first,
the owner of the outlet second, and the unauthorized taker/user
a distant third. (Excepting some life or death immediate danger.)

Is opportunistically plugging into a receptacle for electricity
any different than;
- downloading music?
- watching cable TV if you haven't paid for it?
- taking water from a hose?
- using a public phone with a missing coin door (archaic :D )

I can't see where ,"I got mine (electric car)" can be morally
converted into, "And now I'm gonna take yours (resource)."

Honesty is what you do when you know someone is watching you
-- Note: May or may not include "God" and/or ancestors.

Character is what you do when you know no one is watching.

Taking anything that is not yours is stealing, some people just like to find ways to justify it or make it seem like it's not. I know as a fact a parking garage where some EV folk plugged into a 120 outlet often without asking, based on a rough guess I would bet that cost that business an extra $50 per moth minimum. It's not stealing though, the garage owner should be happy to pay that extra $600. Don't be a you know what, ask to charge or leave money. If someone cuts your cord for charging without asking on private property then don't cry either. For those that think it's ok, please post your address and leave an extension cord available for all of us to charge.

Train
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:23 pm

Using power from an outlet without asking is stealing plain and simple, it cost that business per kwh, it's not free. The outlets are not there to charge an EV they are for private business use. Justifying it's use as a patron is flat wrong, as wrong as stealing items from their inventory. In an emergency with no options if one used an outlet one should tell the business and offer to pay for the power. When I go to a gas station and buy gum it does not entitle me the right to take gas from a pump that may not be reset. For those that do this please don't justify it as not stealing, it's not your power and you did not pay for it, EVs do not come with an entitlement pass so let's not give them a bad name.
Yep.

DarkStar
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:06 am
Delivery Date: 25 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 568
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Contact: Website

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:26 pm

Would you charge here? It is a prominently displayed power outlet without any locking mechanism in an area where people regularly plug into them (and the cords run to vehicles). I'm not sure why "charging" wouldn't be allowed based on some of the statements on this thread... I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...

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Mikiko (2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC) Status:
Reserved: 04/20/10 | Ordered: 10/01/10 | EV Project Blink Installed: 03/22/11 | Delivered: 03/25/11 | VIN: 568

Oregon Electric Vehicle Association | Electric Auto Association

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EVDRIVER
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:40 pm

If someone else doe sit I can? If someone keys your car for parking close to theirs can I key you car as well? Is it labeled free public electricity? Outlets are in places like this for service equipment and other uses by the owner who pays for the electricity, likely not a charity electricity provider as well. What twisted logic do people have that makes them think that if something is not locked it is there for the taking. I really can't believe the implied justifications I'm hearing here. It's not a public use outlet or water fountain. Can I plug into someones unlocked outlet on their garage? Can I fill my tanker truck up at fire hydrants? Go to a lake on a golf course and take water when I like? I suppose since you can't see electricity or the dollars coming out of the socket then it's "all good" and ok. Perhaps charge point should just give us all free electricity everywhere.

Are we really having a debate over something so clear cut or are people so screwed up in America that they thing taking something that does not belong to them is no longer stealing? By the way, many cars have gas caps that don't lock. I suppose it's ok to suck some gas out of a car in a parking lot as well.

Train
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:53 pm

Would you charge here? It is a prominently displayed power outlet without any locking mechanism in an area where people regularly plug into them (and the cords run to vehicles). I'm not sure why "charging" wouldn't be allowed based on some of the statements on this thread... I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...
Wow. You can't distinguish the difference? The library allows you to do this. It invites you to use their services.

Regarding the outlet pictured above...

You don't have permission.

It's NOT your outlet.

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
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Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:01 pm

EVDRIVER and Train: Just so you don't feel like lonely prophets in the desert, I agree with you.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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