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ttweed
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:45 pm

smkettner wrote:How exactly were outlets in SD getting plundered? Were RVs parking for the day and wheezing all the juice?
Yes, exactly--it's in the news story I linked to in my post.

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JasonT
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:54 pm

DarkStar wrote:I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...
I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. You've brought up "unsecured wireless" twice but I do not think that this is a fair comparison. Most areas I am aware of do not charge per KB - it's a flat-rate fee for data. Of course there are some exceptions and some limits but for the most part you pay per month and you have your access. I don't know anyone that does electricity that way. Additionally, as pointed out by Train a public access point is just that - a public access point. It was purposely set up for people to freely use it. But just because an outlet exists does not mean it was put there for public use.

There are some that will argue that any unsecured wireless point should be a free for all, but even if you disagree you're still (in most cases) not costing that person any money.

rainnw
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:26 pm

If you are parking at a location where a power outlet is prominently located, unlocked, and has no signage to the contrary, I believe that it would be perfectly acceptable to plug into it (think about motor block heaters in Canada and Alaska).
In AK, this can cause damage to property without plugging in and possibly cause a life threatening condition (if you were stupid enough). Its a little bit more dire straights than just needing a little bit of a (free) charge. The irony is that, while most block heaters for cars are around 400 watts, a block heater for a big truck can be around the same L1 charging wattage!! (its practically a hair dryer) Even more ironic is that outlets are plentiful, and nobody cares about who owes what amount of money. Funny that people mope and whine about giving away/building L1 infrastructure for something nobody would think twice about in Alaska. And electricity is a load more expensive in AK.

There are no real laws on the books on who gets to plug in for block heating. As long as i was not illegally parked (and worth being towed), i could plug in without being bothered.

BUT...it seems ethically an entirely different thing if I were to plug in on a summer day in Fairbanks AK. I'd get some interesting looks ("stupid tourist")..and then outright anguish when they saw it was an electric car. I'd look like a freeloader i bet. Whenever i talk about the leaf, i ask alaskans and they laugh at the possibly of never paying to refuel the car...but realistically...i dont know if anyone would dare to abuse it.
JasonT wrote:
DarkStar wrote:I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...
I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. You've brought up "unsecured wireless" twice but I do not think that this is a fair comparison. Most areas I am aware of do not charge per KB - it's a flat-rate fee for data. Of course there are some exceptions and some limits but for the most part you pay per month and you have your access. I don't know anyone that does electricity that way. Additionally, as pointed out by Train a public access point is just that - a public access point. It was purposely set up for people to freely use it. But just because an outlet exists does not mean it was put there for public use.

There are some that will argue that any unsecured wireless point should be a free for all, but even if you disagree you're still (in most cases) not costing that person any money.
There was actually a case (and i am not sure if he was sentenced or if the charges were dropped), where a business got mad that someone, day after day, without buying coffee, would use their wifi in the business parking lot. There was a sign that specifically said "Free WiFi with purchase of coffee". The wireless network was otherwise, completely unsecured.

They called the police one day and he was charged with a felony charge of theft.
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garygid
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:47 pm

1. The laws covering use of unsecured WiFi seem to vary by state.

2. If you do not own it, or have explicit or reasonably clear permission to use something, don't use it.

3. In SD, apparently [rough recall] ... "they" were using "sledgehammers" to bash off the locks and break off the secured covers. Covers replaced, 36 hours later, gone again. [/rr]
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:32 pm

planet4ever wrote:EVDRIVER and Train: Just so you don't feel like lonely prophets in the desert, I agree with you.

I'm shocked by how some feel the right to take anything they deem theirs. If people chose to take something that is not theirs that is their choice but please don't call it anything other than stealing unless you pay for it or put it back. Weather it's music on the internet that is not given away, private outlets, a bootlegged cable TV connection, etc. For those that chose to use outlets without asking permission, I hope no one sees you as it gives a bad name to EVs and if you have an issue with a cut cord or an irate owner don't bother complaining here, you deserve it. It's not just rude it's stealing. Perhaps those in that camp won't mind if I hook to your L3 port and charge my Leaf from your pack, or run some device off it? Of course only if the flap is unlocked, right? Is this really an EV forum?


For those in need I would certainly let them plug in at my home if they asked.

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garygid
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm

+3

The worst part is that inconsiderate behavior will reflect upon ALL of us.

Please, please, do not make it necessary for most of US to have to Police a few "Violators".

It is not just us that such behavior would be hurting, but it could well damage the whole EV movement.

Further, I suspect that the Press would just LOVE to jump all over us wirh "EVs Stealing Power", and "LEAF Owner in Prison" type of headlines.
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dday
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:53 pm

I agree if I came home and found you plugged in to my outlet I would not be happy. If your driving by and stop in and ask I would have no problem letting you charge up. Asking can get you alot of things. :D

smkettner
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:41 pm

Considering it is just L1 I am not sure I would mind finding a desperate stranger plugged in to get a charge. A full 24 hours is fine also as long as they do not block the driveway etc. If I ask the person to move along he should but no hard feelings. If there was a public charger close by I would give directions for him to use that instead. Showing up every day would be a different story and certainly damage to my property would have the police on the way. Otherwise it is just not a big deal to me to share a few pennies with a stranger whether they ask or not.
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walterbays
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:33 pm

dday wrote:I agree if I came home and found you plugged in to my outlet I would not be happy. If your driving by and stop in and ask I would have no problem letting you charge up. Asking can get you alot of things. :D
This is one extreme. Your J1772 or outdoor outlet at your home are clearly your property for use by you and your guests. Some very kind soul like smkettner might place a small sign saying that Leaf drivers in need are welcome. Otherwise I say ring the doorbell and ask, and if that fails, call Nissan roadside assistance.

Another extreme is an outlet clearly in public space, funded by the public, and not marked as reserved. How many of you have ever plugged a laptop into an airport wall outlet without being charged with a felony? Would you expect a J1772 in an airport parking garage without any signage to be any different?

In between, there's a J1772 at a retail business like a shopping mall. Private, but placed for the benefit of patrons. Absent signage I'd expect that free charging would be like free parking, for me to use while shopping, whether or not I found anything to buy. With signage saying so, I'd expect sometimes to see charging to be like validated parking: free 1 hr parking with $10 purchase; free 1 hr charging with $10 purchase.

Then there's a J1772 at a non-retail business like an office building. Private, and placed for the benefit of employees and clients. Absent signage, I still wouldn't want to use it unless they gave me explicit permission.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:32 am

Unless there is nothing else on the circuit there's a good chance the breaker will trip. Let's see now, where is the panel that feeds that outlet on the third floor of the parking garage? :?
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