smkettner
Posts: 7379
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:45 pm

garygid wrote:Just because you pay for parking, does that entitle you to take the bulbs from their lighting fixtures?
No, just as it would not be proper to remove the outlet when done
Just leave it the way you found it
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12464
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:51 pm

So, you think you have the right to steal the "unmarked" e-fuel, but stealing the unmarked lightbulbs would be wrong. How strange.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

charlie1300
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:23 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2012
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Just call me old fashioned, but the word I learned for taking something of value from someone else without asking is .....Stealing.

The fact that I have completed a transaction at a business to purchase something for sale at the posted price (a cup of coffee, a pair of shoes, a parking space) doesn't give me the right to help myself to other goods owned by that business that aren't marked for sale. If the business INTENDED that my purchase would entitle me to additional items for free, they would make that abundantly clear.

If I see a nice shop vac in the maintenance closet of the parking garage that happens not to be locked, I guess I can just take that home with me after my day's parking. If there's a tub of flowers that catches my eye in front of the bagel shop where I just got lunch, I could just throw it in the back of my Leaf. In fact, anything not under lock and key is available for my taking. Please explain the moral difference between this and what you are proposing.
reserved : 05/25/2010
AV installed : What, do you think I'm crazy? Got Phil's EVSE upgrade!
Order letter : 9/29/2011
Order date: 1/21/2012
MY Leaf: RED! SL
delivery date: April 5, 2012

smkettner
Posts: 7379
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:08 pm

Do you ask every time you park on private property to see if it is OK?
Or do you drive a couple blocks to find a parking meter?
Do you look for a sign that says free parking to make sure it is OK?
It does after all cost more to maintain parking areas than L1 will even come close to costing.
And yet the business is happy to maintain a nice parking area free of charge.
Why would the minor cost of L1 be excluded?

I honestly think the L1 availability will expand in far more areas for this purpose than others lock them down.
I think you all hardliners are making a big deal out of a non-issue.

H--- the business spends far more on the clown on the sidewalk waving the sign than L1 would be as a marketing tool.
Last edited by smkettner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:15 pm

I can see both sides of this and I think the ultimate answer is "It Depends".

I'm originally from the upper peninsula of Michigan - and this is part of the "land of block heaters and 120V plugs in rows in many parking lots for the use of anyone that needs one."

If there is an outlet installed for the benefit of customers or others that park in the lot then charge away if the outlet can be safely used.

If not, get permission to use the outlet. If not provided for use and/or no permission to use an outlet, it's theft.

User avatar
Jimmydreams
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:44 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0175
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Contact: Website

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:19 pm

garygid wrote:Just because you pay for parking, does that entitle you to take the bulbs from their lighting fixtures?
No, but what if I stole them and replaced them with low wattage CFLs??
:lol:
JimmyD
http://www.jjhamilton.com/solar
Blue SL Leaf delivered 1/7/2011
EVP participant. EVSE: Blink
6.75kW PV solar

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:28 pm

Personally I'll never plugin unless I get permission - except in emergencies.

ps : How about all the gas cars that are stealing our clean air ? How about industrial lobbies that can bribe the politicians to make such acts legal ?

If only we had as much respect for common resources/property as we have for private property in this country, the world would have been in a better shape.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12464
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:42 pm

Well, it seems to me that a person doing what is described here could be called inconsiderate, and possibly a thief.

It is possible that those who park on my private property without invitation could find that their car is gone when they return. But, true, there is no effective way I can stop them from parking there.

Even parking in "public property" but blocking my access would be ... not nice, and could result in both a ticket and a tow.

But, each person decides what kind of person they will be, and what risks to take.

Some think it is OK to jaywalk, to double-park, to run a red light, or even to take "excess" cash from a bank. True, some of these are more risky than others.

Is it now that a $1 theft OK, but a $10 theft is not?

Or, if one is unlikely to get caught, that makes it "more" OK?

No wonder humanoids cannot learn to live peacefully together.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

blorg
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:48 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Seattle Metro Area

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:43 pm

Not to continue beating a dead horse, but one of the reasons that many garages have outlets all over the place is due to building codes. And making all of them secure would not only cost a lot, but then be a pain for whenever they wanted to use them for maintenance.

I've asked at many different garages for my Xebra (much lower power requirements than the Leaf) and while many have welcomed it, there are some garages that have said no. Most of their "no" reasons are completely unfounded, but it IS private property, those outlets were NOT installed for my use, and whatever reason they have for not wanting me to is their own business and I'm not justified in using that power.
~ Blorg
---------------------------
2017 Nissan LEAF SV

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:59 pm

blorg wrote:Not to continue beating a dead horse, but one of the reasons that many garages have outlets all over the place is due to building codes. And making all of them secure would not only cost a lot, but then be a pain for whenever they wanted to use them for maintenance.

I've asked at many different garages for my Xebra (much lower power requirements than the Leaf) and while many have welcomed it, there are some garages that have said no. Most of their "no" reasons are completely unfounded, but it IS private property, those outlets were NOT installed for my use, and whatever reason they have for not wanting me to is their own business and I'm not justified in using that power.
Very solid point, also many don't have insurance for EV charging and can be sued if there is an issue. If one trips a critical breaker in a business then the property owner could sue them as well. This is such clear cut common sense and I can't believe there is any debate over this whatsoever. It seems some people were raised with subjective values and a good dose of denial and justification. It's sad to see people joining the EV community with such an outlook on basic courtesy and respect for private property.

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”