DaveinOlyWA
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Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:30 am

i thought i saw a thread started on this some where? but cannot find it.

Well i dont have 220 (nor a way to monitor it) so i will need some feedback. so far, after a few cold days (i am sure that makes a slight difference) my mileage performance is not what i expected it to be.

i am averaging 2.5-2.8 miles per kwh. that also includes days where climate control usage was very slight (yesterday it was 48º at 5:40 AM) now, this also includes a day, when i get up charged to 100% (or whatever it is) on 110 volts. range 106 miles. i drove to work, parked it 11 hours including sitting in car at lunch listening to Sat, etc. then drive home, short pitstop on the way. total trip. 20.3 miles, range estimate. 89 miles. so used 17 miles of my estimate on my 20+ mile trip.

plug in, recharge and put another 6.19 Kwh back, so best performance so far, but estimated range tells me i am much higher, so the discrepancy is mostly charger inefficiency??

what is anyone else getting?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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AndyH
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:57 am

Dave, are you thinking it's a charger efficiency change based on estimated range numbers?

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:18 am

dont know what i am thinking yet. just posting info wondering what other thoughts we have here on the conversion and efficiency of the system.

yesterdays performance did jump a bit from the previous days, but it was also nearly 10º warmer. too early to tell yet.

but would be nice if someone who had 220 could charge at 110 to compare?

the other thing is that my Carwings is not working so i dont know what the car is reporting. i have range estimates and that kind of stuff, but i am not sending daily reports so i dont know if my Car is reseting its estimates to me. it states 3.6 MPK which would be (i would think) battery to wheels. but it changes very slowly making me think its the average since i got the car. but we shall see. when i get carwings working, i will have a lot more data to work with
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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planet4ever
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:27 pm

Your true miles/kWh is odometer difference divided by Kill-A-Watt reading. Anything else you are looking at is either a very rough estimate (bars used) or some computer programmer's guess as to how you will be driving in the future.
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wsbca
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:01 pm

I did one L1 charge (with a short heavy duty extension cord plus the EVSE cord) with a Killawatt and got a similar wall to wheels result (2.6 miles/kWh). I haven't retried it. With L2 I'm getting the same 3.2 or so miles/kWh as others. The Carwings estimates bear no relationship to wall to wheels reality, and the in-car cumulative figure is also erroneously optimistic, but not quite as much so. The 3.27 you got on a 110 recharge actually sounds pretty good but it does beg the question of why your other cases are not so good. The range estimates are highly sensitive to the most recent driving conditions (terrain, speed) so I'd leave those out of your analysis. The only thing that really matters (to me anyway) as far as judging efficiency is the odometer reading divided by a utility meter, TED, or Killawatt reading.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:46 pm

Ok the car currently tells me I am at 3.8 mpk. Now that my "109" mile range is half gone. I now have 55 mile range and have driven 40 miles so I will have to say my range this morning was probably 95.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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DeaneG
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:11 pm

wsbca wrote:..The only thing that really matters (to me anyway) as far as judging efficiency is the odometer reading divided by a utility meter, TED, or Killawatt reading.
This is probably an important observation. Gas cars overestimate their mpg all the time - my Rx400h consistently gets 24mpg by pump and odometer, but the in-car display shows 25.3. Why should an electric car be any different - it's still engineered by people who prefer to display optimistic results.

And of course the wall-to-wheels numbers should be about 15% lower than battery-to-wheels.
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Spies
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:39 pm

I charged last night for the first time through the KAW EZ using the Nissan provided L1 EVSE. I don't have a TED but now I am seriously considering getting one. Started with an 80% timer charge Friday morning. We did a total of 20.8 miles of very mixed driving over a total of 6 trips. Timer set to charge to 80% Saturday and it charged for a total of about 6 hours and KAW EZ reads a total of 8.28 kWh.

So with 20.8 miles divided by 8.28 kWh I end with about 2.51 miles/kWh.

Carwings shows the following:

Code: Select all

Trips	Total	Consumption	Regeneration	Distance	Energy
1		0.8kWh		1.2kWh		0.4kWh		4.8miles		5.7miles/kWh
2		0.4kWh		0.9kWh		0.5kWh		3.3miles		7.7miles/kWh
3		0.6kWh		0.9kWh		0.3kWh		3.2miles		5.3miles/kWh
4		0.8kWh		1.3kWh		0.5kWh		4.0miles		5.1miles/kWh
5		0.4kWh		0.5kWh		0.1kWh		1.4miles		4.0miles/kWh
6		1.1kWh		1.5kWh		0.4kWh		4.1miles		3.8miles/kWh
From this I get a total of 20.8 miles and 4.1 kWh for a total of 5.07 which matches the front page of Carwings. I have not had a chance to check if these numbers match what is reported in the Leaf but will check when I have access to the car again.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:38 am

if just using what the car is telling me then i am getting the same #'s as you, but if using DMPK, i am getting 70-80% of that.

now granted, the more you regen, the worse this ratio becomes so not sure its valid without determing regen values.

the trees?? has anyone figured out what charge they represent?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14204
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Charger Efficiency comparing 110 and 220

Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:39 am

ok a trip made on 27th and 28th

on 27th drove 53.8 miles around town, recharged 15.2 KWH. minimal climate control. now regen got me 4.3 KWH and .7 used for accessories, so where do i see climate control usage?

on 28th freeway trip 65-70 mph with high climate control usage heater on all the time set at 80º. 57.3 miles, 21.01 KWH with 1.4 KWH regen, 1.5 KWH accessories.

in figuring charging efficiency (i wish i knew how accurate KAW was??)

the car used 11.8 KWH and regen 4.3 KWH minus the .7 KWH that just about equals what was put in from the wall (15.2 KWH) especially if we toss in a bit for climate control.

so again, where do we see energy consumption for climate controls on carwings?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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