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Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:28 pm
by mwalsh
jason98 wrote:Confused. What does it exactly explains? If I had 90% of capacity then I had plenty of capacity for regen.
Yes, at 100% charge you don't get any regen at all. After about 1.5 miles you start to see some. But you don't get significant regen until you've dropped down below that first bar on the gauge (which is probably like 92% - there is a chart on here someplace).

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:48 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
float charge explains it. your car was actively charging and when u first unplug it, the estimated range is bloated. how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time. i have an 18.2 mile RT commute and rarely if ever charge sunday night for commute mon morning.

so i get into car having driven 18.2 miles the previous day from an SOC that was probably 85-90%. i get in and range is around 60-65 miles right?

ok, well one Monday, my SO thought it was her turn to drive Leaf and it was cold, so she plugged it in, and started the pre heat. well, i told her i had not charged from the previous day and she will not take it unless its full. so she took Prius instead. well, this is when car plugged in for like 30-40 minutes. i jump in, range is like 80 miles and i am shocked since pre heat will prevent any range increase on 120 charging.

but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.

so i drove 9 miles and lost 25 miles of range, but had parked it the night before and only had "around" 60 something. really wish i had paid attention to range i had left but cant say that i even gave it a 2nd look. but i have done this same pattern over and over and always had about the same give or take a few

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:04 pm
by jason98
DaveinOlyWA wrote:how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time.
I had all lighted up but 2 top.
DaveinOlyWA wrote: but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.
Exactly what I experienced. I had preheat too and charging it manually without timer.

So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:17 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
jason98 wrote:
So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?
LOL!! u dont. i have an advantage in that i use 120 volt charging so i can accurately track how much charge i am putting in.

the only real way is to pay attention to where u go and what info you get back from your Leaf.

also, another thing a bit off topic but can be used to judge your distance.

always reset your trip meters and your mpk on the efficiency menu so you can track your mpk performance that day and keep in mind, your usable batt capacity is between 20-21 kwh. i can pretty much guarantee that it is not 24

**edit** an afterthought; i was really really anal about watching the estimated range but that only lasted about 2 weeks. i began to realize that what i was looking at was realistically nonsense. this was the Car predicting the future and it could predict it just as well as i could and if you knew about my stock performance over the past 2 years you would know i really SUCK at it!!

i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.

now the fact that you went from 4.1 to 4.2 from the main gauge means your real performance is probably between 4.5 and 5.0. i would say higher but the # of stops you have scares me and i am willing to bet i am within .1 to .2 of that.

so your realistic range is probably 72 to 80 miles. so driving 16.6 miles and having what u have left is right about where you should be.

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:42 pm
by jason98
DaveinOlyWA wrote: LOL!! u dont.
Well, at least I can charge to max, reset the trip stats, and then drive around neighborhood until it halts.

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:52 pm
by kmp647
Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:16 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
kmp647 wrote:Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?
No. The pack is not in the cabin.

Also I think we should not over emphasize the effects of temperatures on pack performance because it is really not much of a factor.

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:48 am
by AndyH
This is making me crazy and I don't have the car yet. :D

We've got three things happening in parallel here and it's going to take Leafers some time to really grok what's happening.

- First, we have energy in the battery. If we charge to 100% we've got 24kWh of stored energy. This is hard fact.
- Next, we have the driver and his/her habits. A driver transitioning to a Leaf from a high-power vehicle or a driver that's used to driving 20mph over the limit and zig-zagging through traffic does not realize how much energy they use. Rude awakening time! This is erratic, fuzzy, and hard to predict.
- Third, we have the computer in that car that's trying to be helpful and supportive but it's being misunderstood by most. It's trying to take a hard fact, merge it with erratic/fuzzy/hard to predict, and display a number that too many of us want to use as a fact in a court of law. :lol: When it displays 90 miles range, it's saying "hey - based on the energy in the 'tank' and how you drove for the past (30 seconds, minute, 3 minutes), if you keep driving like that then you'll be able to go this far on a flat road with no wind." Throw in a hill, wind, or a lead foot and all bets are off.

The same way we don't automatically trust any nav system's "turn right now" and turn into the side of a building, we should not bet our life on the range meter. What do we know for sure? What can we trust? We know if we filled the 'tank' the night before, and we know that the 'fuel gauge' shows us how much energy we have in the tank. When we learn the car we'll know how far we can travel based on where and how we drive.

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:02 am
by abasile
DaveinOlyWA wrote:i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:17 am
by sproqitman
abasile wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.
That's what I'm doing, to a certain extent. I live in a hilly area, so I pretty quickly gave up on the range calculation. It seems to be heavily biased to the last 5 miles of driving, which in our case is all uphill. The SOC bars seem to be fairly reliable with respect to remaining charge. The problem is your consumption varies depending on: (1) terrain, (2) speed, and (3) accessory usage (climate control, primarily). So the short answer is that you need to drive the car for a while to get a feel for how fast the SOC bars disappear, based on your local terrain and driving behavior.

Example: Dropping my wife off at her Tuesday meeting burns approx 1 bar getting there and 1.5 bars getting back, if I don't use the freeway, ambient temperature is 40-45 degF, with climate control set to 65 degF. That's pretty consistent, but I expect it will change as it warms up and the heater doesn't run as often. One-way distance is approx 10 miles, BTW.