I've joined the 7 bars club

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

garsh

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
1,173
Location
Pittsburgh PA
I'm two days away from passing 100,000 miles in my 2012 Leaf. It just dropped bar number 8, so I'm now at 7 bars. Charges to 160 GIDs on a good day now. Range is now less than 50 miles, on a warm day and keeping the speeds below 55mph. I *think* I might still be able to make it to work with my 30-mile commute in the winter, but I'd have to start charging to 100% at both ends of the commute (and I can't use the heater, of course).

The Leaf is not a bad little car, but the battery technology is why I will never consider buying another one.
 
I cannot understand how you can say you will never buy another Leaf? You have had the use of a great car for 7-8 years, and gotten 100K trouble free miles. And you can still drive the car locally for free until she don't go no more.... It has served its "first life's purpose"...

You Saved at least 3/4 $$ on your fuel bills (no gas), no maintenance, and still have a good running car with no signs of needing to be retired. Where is the down side?

Second life:
If you invest $5-6K into a new battery, you a) Continue to use a working appliance that is paid for (where its resale value is questionable), and b) Have the use of this "paid-off" machine for another 8-10 years.. Sounds like a win-win situation. That is what I hope to do with mine.
 
powersurge said:
I cannot understand how you can say you will never buy another Leaf? You have had the use of a great car for 7-8 years, and gotten 100K trouble free miles. And you can still drive the car locally for free until she don't go no more.... It has served its "first life's purpose"...

You Saved at least 3/4 $$ on your fuel bills (no gas), no maintenance, and still have a good running car with no signs of needing to be retired. Where is the down side?

Second life:
If you invest $5-6K into a new battery, you a) Continue to use a working appliance that is paid for (where its resale value is questionable), and b) Have the use of this "paid-off" machine for another 8-10 years.. Sounds like a win-win situation. That is what I hope to do with mine.

It costs over 8 grand to have a battery replacement for a car that has poor resale value. Also if the car was involved in an accident, no way to recover expense. While all cars are technically disposable, this is way too short of a usable lifespan for most people IMO. By the way, in the past, I felt insulted by a Nissan mechanic when he told me not to buy the car because it was a disposable car...

There are now better options out there for BEV buyers. Maybe Nissan will get up to speed in the future and be able to be back in the game here in the States. Nissan rested on it's initial lead and was passed by...
 
powersurge said:
I cannot understand how you can say you will never buy another Leaf? You have had the use of a great car for 7-8 years, and gotten 100K trouble free miles. And you can still drive the car locally for free until she don't go no more.... It has served its "first life's purpose"...
OP's delivery date says April 2012. He's gotten almost 6.5 years out of it.
powersurge said:
Second life:
If you invest $5-6K into a new battery, you a) Continue to use a working appliance that is paid for (where its resale value is questionable), and b) Have the use of this "paid-off" machine for another 8-10 years.. Sounds like a win-win situation. That is what I hope to do with mine.
It cannot be had for even $6K anymore. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882 and many more (esp. near the end of the thread) are reports that beyond $6K.

I've never had to spend $7K to $8.5K to replace some item or performance some maintenance on a car that has hit 6.5 or 7 years old, that also has little value. Besides the other issues already mentioned, some expensive out of warranty items could fail like the brake master cylinder (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203), heater or on-board charger or something with the stereo head unit.
 
alozzy said:
I'm curious though, do you still get decent regen?
Heh. No. Nissan decided to severely limit regen as the battery degrades. I actually had to replace all four brake pads at ~90k miles.
 
powersurge said:
I cannot understand how you can say you will never buy another Leaf?
A car that Nissan originally touted as having a 90-mile range, and which the EPA rated as having a 72-mile range, now shows 45 miles of range when fully charged. I have a 60-mile round-trip commute. Luckily, I can charge on both ends, or I would have had to replace it two winters ago.

Come this winter, there are going to be some cold, snowy days when this car simply isn't going to have the range to make it to work. I need to replace this car. But no worries, I've already obtained a replacement. ;)

I put 175k miles on the car that I traded in for the Leaf. It's disappointing to me that the Leaf can't last as long. Therefore, I will not be buying another.
And you can still drive the car locally for free until she don't go no more....
The problem is, I need a car that can get me to work. But I have a 16yo on a learner's permit, so I'll keep the Leaf for him to use locally. But hopefully you understand why I will not be buying another. There are better options available today. Nissan needs to demonstrate better battery longevity if they want to compete.
 
Sorry to hear the Leaf is no longer working well for your commute. Congrats on the Model 3.

And keeping the Leaf as a first car for a teenager who probably won't be driving long ranges anyway is an excellent 2nd life for it.

I hear you about the desire to not have these be disposable cars after 6-8 years. But that is one advantage to a new one. If the 24kwh battery worked well for 6 years, the 40 kwh battery would have quite a bit more room for degradation before it becomes disposable. So that should translate to a 10-15 year car. But with your commute, the Model 3 is an excellent choice.
 
DarthPuppy said:
And keeping the Leaf as a first car for a teenager who probably won't be driving long ranges anyway
A teenager who DEFINITELY won't be driving long ranges! ;) Hopefully he understands that going more than 20 miles from home (or less if using the heater) is simply impossible.
 
DarthPuppy said:
I hear you about the desire to not have these be disposable cars after 6-8 years. But that is one advantage to a new one. If the 24kwh battery worked well for 6 years, the 40 kwh battery would have quite a bit more room for degradation before it becomes disposable. So that should translate to a 10-15 year car.
(38/22)*6 = 10.3 years.

A definite improvement over the first gen LEAFs if the simple calc holds true but still no where near the level of a garden variety ICE or a Tesla.
 
I'll trust your math on that. So my rough guess is looking a little long. Hopefully by then battery replacements will be a common, affordable option to extend the life of these cars. But I haven't seen enough indications to support that it will. :cry:
 
The useful life of the LEAF batteries is almost totally determined by the climate you live in, assuming you don't abuse it with bad charging habits.

Most 2013 LEAFs in the PNW have around 85% SOH after 5 years (that is, 2013s with the better battery chemistry). So, there's a good chance that the pack won't drop down to 8 capacity bars until at least 2023 and maybe even as far out as 2025. I'll be happy with that, provided the battery pack can be responsibly recycled/reused at the end of its useful life. I'm sure I'll want a longer range EV by that time anyways, so hopefully I'll be able to upgrade to a used Bolt, Niro, Kona, Soul, etc with a 60 kWh (or thereabouts) pack for a reasonable cost.

One concern I have is that CHADEMO will be deprecated by then, which would make the LEAF much less useful. However, hopefully a reasonably priced CHADEMO to CCS adapter will be available by that time.
 
alozzy said:
One concern I have is that CHADEMO will be deprecated by then, which would make the LEAF much less useful. However, hopefully a reasonably priced CHADEMO to CCS adapter will be available by that time.

Excellent point. Is anyone working on creating one of these adapters? That could really help prolong the useful life of these cars, especially the ones in favorable climates.
 
cwerdna said:
I've never had to spend $7K to $8.5K to replace some item or performance some maintenance on a car that has hit 6.5 or 7 years old, that also has little value. Besides the other issues already mentioned, some expensive out of warranty items could fail like the brake master cylinder (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203), heater or on-board charger or something with the stereo head unit.

I agree that the battery replacement price increase is making it a less attractive choice.... However, This appears a sneaky way for the car companies to get their older EVs off the road, like they did with the GM EV1s.. My feeling is that I (me) will decide how long I will own my Leaf...

I bought My "S" version Leaf to save the $5000 or so (instead of getting the SL), and got the $7500 from the government. For me, I already have the money saved to replace the battery and drive the car to 200K miles.... Also, in a few years, if most Leaf owners junk their cars, an original Leaf will have a high resale value as a collectible.. For those over the age of 40, think of all the cars you have owned that you are sorry you sold!!
 
SageBrush said:
A definite improvement over the first gen LEAFs if the simple calc holds true but still no where near the level of a garden variety .............Tesla.
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced. All vehicle alternatives are a choice - and that choice is not nearly so simplistic as you are suggesting.
 
Dooglas said:
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.
There you have it: you spent more, for a range limited LEAF. If you are like most people you supplement the LEAF with another car. THAT is why the choice is hard to justify.

The Tesla value is in not having to keep an ICE around, and having tech that will last a long time.
 
Dooglas said:
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.
How much did you pay for the first LEAF and how long until you bought another ?
How much did you pay for the second LEAF and how long do you think it will be until it does not meet your present needs ?
What other cars do you keep to supplement the LEAF ?

The Tesla value is in not having to keep an ICE around, and having tech that will last a long time.
 
Dooglas said:
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.
Cheapest 3 you can buy is $49K right now. Go to https://3.tesla.com/model3/design. Only 1 color (black) is included at that price. All the other colors cost extra.

I would not waste the $3K on "Full Self-Driving Capability" at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if does not reach SAE level 5 (https://web.archive.org/web/20161120142825/http://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf) within the typical lifespan of the car. It may not even get to level 4 within that time, unless Tesla ends up collaborating with and using technology and software from someone else who is further ahead (e.g. Cruise Automation or Waymo).

Cheapest S is $77K + $1.2K doc and dest fee: https://www.tesla.com/models/design.
 
Dooglas said:
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days.
Model 3 starts at $49k currently, but the $35k version should be available early next year.

I paid $35,200 for my 2012 Nissan Leaf SV ($38,700 in 2018 USD). A 2018 Leaf SL starts at $36,200. It's going to be hard to justify a new Leaf over a new Model 3 at these prices. But for basic transportation, the $29,900 Leaf S might make sense for some people.
I am on my second Leaf now.
According to your signature (2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30), you appear to lease your Leafs. If it does what you need it to do, and the price is right, then this makes sense to me. I definitely wish I could go back in time and lease instead of buy my Leaf. I tend to keep my cars for a long time. The car I traded in for my Leaf was 13 years old. The Leaf just isn't going to last that long because the battery degradation is too terrible. But that's not much of an issue when you're leasing.
 
garsh said:
Dooglas said:
Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days.
Model 3 starts at $49k currently, but the $35k version should be available early next year.
"$35K" version was originally supposed to be available to order Nov 2017 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170731003139/https://www.tesla.com/support/model-3-reservations-faq). Obviously, that still hasn't happened. Right now, https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery says "Standard Battery available in 3-6 months". Let's see...
 
Back
Top