EatsShootsandLeafs
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AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:09 am

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/aaa-con ... ather.html

The AAA study appears to be the first to have used standard, repeatable methodology to confirm the problem.
A new AAA study finds that when the thermometer dropped to 20 degrees Fahrenheit, range fell by an average of 41 percent on the five models it tested.
I'm glad we are seeing some more attention to this because it is a serious issue. I personally found that single-digit F with a cold-soak resulted in a 50% range reduction in my 2012 Leaf, leading me to replace it before the lease was up with an ICE (this was several years ago).

jdcbomb
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:29 pm

There was another article posted the day before on cnbc that talked about the same thing, but more anecdotally based on individual users: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/05/tesla-j ... emps-.html

I agree its an issue, but I believe it really is only affecting folks who live in the coldest areas of our country that get down to below 0 Fahrenheit.
I grew up in Ohio, and even those temperatures are pretty rare. Hopefully, battery tech can improve, and people's expectations can be made appropriately when weather this cold happens.

What both articles I think fail to mention is how LITTLE power is required to run seat / steering wheel heaters. The power is so small (less than a few hundred watts combined with all other electronics / displays running) that the range hit would be less than half to 1 percent of the total range. I've seen at least a couple sources report that using seat heaters will reduce your range, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:40 pm

I saw that this morning on the morning news. By leaving it to the news media to regurgitate semi-accurate info, the car makers and the EPA have dropped the ball. At least the warning about range is now getting out in some form...
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SageBrush
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:09 pm

Energy/mile drops as the length of the trip increases. The AAA 'study' fails to clarify this relationship.
And it fails to mention pre-heating.
And it fails to mention use of seat instead of cabin heating.

Absolutely garbage of an article.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 pm

The network (CBS) news piece I saw mentioned preheating, but not seat heaters.
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Nubo
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:29 pm

Bad articles are really just a sign that EVs are getting ever closer to mainstream.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Oilpan4
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:46 pm

40% range reduction?
Maybe only among the worst electric vehicle owners.
Only possible explanations I can think of is the battery is cold so there is little to no regen, they crank up the heat to the max, turn on the rear defroster, leave it on and drive 10mph over the speed limit on the highway.

If I did that on my drive to and from work I wouldn't make it back home.

I think a 40% range reduction is possible, but it would mostly the drivers fault.
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DarthPuppy
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:03 pm

Is there a link to more data from their study? I find it interesting that the article just states the overall EV average range hit without any delineation of how each car fared. In theory, Tesla's response could be accurate as they could have been the best performer in this test with stellar results but since AAA only reported the average of the 4 models in one number, there is no way to know.

While there are apparent issues with the study as noted in the above posts, at least it is a step in the right direction. We need more and better designed studies to understand and disseminate this aspect so the new consumer is better informed about what they are getting into. Very few 'first' studies of an issue are comprehensive. But they often are still valuable as they can provide a useful though not complete picture.
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DarthPuppy
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:08 pm

And we definitely need groups like AAA and Consumer Reports to do these studies. Ones done by the automakers will only see the light of day if they make their product look good. IIRC, without independent researchers on these types of topics, the who VW diesel-gate would have never come to light.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:06 am

I find it interesting that the article just states the overall EV average range hit without any delineation of how each car fared. In theory, Tesla's response could be accurate as they could have been the best performer in this test with stellar results but since AAA only reported the average of the 4 models in one number, there is no way to know.
Tesla can "win" this only by finessing the rules a bit, and making the winner the car with the most actual range in the coldest temps. This ignores efficiency in cabin heating and focuses on 'brute capacity' instead. IIRC, there was a test of Winter range done in Europe, and the Ionic was the winner in efficiency, and maybe in actual range...assuming a 90 or 100kwh Tesla wasn't in the test.
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