yes.DarthPuppy wrote:Is there a link to more data from their study?
Each car was reported. IIRC the i3 and the Bolt fared the worst.
But I'll say it again: the trip length is paramount. The study is FUD
yes.DarthPuppy wrote:Is there a link to more data from their study?
No.LeftieBiker wrote:Tesla can "win" this only by finessing the rules a bit, and making the winner the car with the most actual range in the coldest temps. This ignores efficiency in cabin heating and focuses on 'brute capacity' instead. IIRC, there was a test of Winter range done in Europe, and the Ionic was the winner in efficiency, and maybe in actual range...assuming a 90 or 100kwh Tesla wasn't in the test.I find it interesting that the article just states the overall EV average range hit without any delineation of how each car fared. In theory, Tesla's response could be accurate as they could have been the best performer in this test with stellar results but since AAA only reported the average of the 4 models in one number, there is no way to know.
AAA did not test winter range, it tested short drive winter efficiency by drivers who reheat the cabin every trip.a custom drive sequence
was constructed with a combination of EPA dynamometer drive schedules as specified in Appendix B of
SAE J1634. The UDDS was performed first, immediately followed by the HWFET and a ten (10) minute
soak period. After the soaking period, the UDDS and US06 Driving Schedule (or Supplemental FTP) were
performed in succession. Immediately following the US06, a mid-test CSC at 65 mph was driven. The
distance of the CSC was specific to each vehicle and was selected such that the end-of-test CSC was
about 20 percent of the distance driven throughout the entirety of the test procedure. After the midtest CSC, the UDDS-HWFET-soak-UDDS-US06 test sequence was repeated and an end-of-test CSC at 65
mph was driven until the vehicle was unable to maintain steady-state speed. The constructed drive
sequence was utilized for all test vehicles and ambient temperatures.
My worst ever day on a 12-bar 2012 Nissan Leaf consisted of a 100% charge. Car was on my driveway, so cold-soaked and it was low single digits I believe. Since it was terribly cold I had the heat on max, of course, and that is not driver error. I got to work, and then at the end of the day after it had been sitting all day I drove home. Again, all defrosting on/heat cranked because it was cold--same way I would in any car.Oilpan4 wrote:40% range reduction?
Maybe only among the worst electric vehicle owners.
Only possible explanations I can think of is the battery is cold so there is little to no regen, they crank up the heat to the max, turn on the rear defroster, leave it on and drive 10mph over the speed limit on the highway.
If I did that on my drive to and from work I wouldn't make it back home.
I think a 40% range reduction is possible, but it would mostly the drivers fault.
How far off do you think that is from a typical commuters behavior? The average American commute is about 25 minutes and I suspect most people hop in the car and blast the heat until the cabin warms up.SageBrush wrote:
AAA did not test winter range, it tested short drive winter efficiency by drivers who reheat the cabin every trip.
Those drives are not where range comes into play.golfcart wrote:How far off do you think that is from a typical commuters behavior? The average American commute is about 25 minutes and I suspect most people hop in the car and blast the heat until the cabin warms up.SageBrush wrote:
AAA did not test winter range, it tested short drive winter efficiency by drivers who reheat the cabin every trip.
I think it is relevant for 2 reasonsSageBrush wrote: Those drives are not where range comes into play.
You will notice that the EPA range test does not repeatedly cold soak the test every 30 minutes or so .
So basically if someone buys an EV expecting 250 miles of EPA range, commutes around 40 miles daily using the heat like they would any other car, and is shocked to find that they only get ~200 miles of range in the winter they are fools...SageBrush wrote:Testing a modern EV as if it is a degraded 24 kWh LEAF makes this "study" FUD
Using cabin heating in an EV instead of seat heating makes the driver a fool.
The EPA highway test does not simulate 55 mph driving.
The cabin heater pulls up to 6 kW at full blast and settles down to ~ 1 kW at steady state temperature. If Merkins were not abject idiots that would be all that is required to know and the echo chamber of FUD and propaganda could be constrained to the White House.
Nogolfcart wrote:So basically if someone buys an EV expecting 250 miles of EPA range, commutes around 40 miles daily using the heat like they would any other car, and is shocked to find that they only get ~200 miles of range in the winter they are fools...SageBrush wrote:Testing a modern EV as if it is a degraded 24 kWh LEAF makes this "study" FUD
Using cabin heating in an EV instead of seat heating makes the driver a fool.
The EPA highway test does not simulate 55 mph driving.
The cabin heater pulls up to 6 kW at full blast and settles down to ~ 1 kW at steady state temperature. If Merkins were not abject idiots that would be all that is required to know and the echo chamber of FUD and propaganda could be constrained to the White House.