gascant
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2209
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 pm

I had the opposite experience to you, Mike. On Sunday, my wife and I went for a "country" drive to a winery to pick up our club shipments. Then we took freeway for about 15 miles coming home. Whereas I normally lose the first bar at 6 miles, on Monday I lost it at 4.5. And I used 5 bars to get to work instead of 4. Tuesday, first bar went at 5 miles and I was thinking I would call up my PD and ask for a battery check. By today, I was back up to >6 for the first bar, and average of 7 overall. I pretty much count on 7/bar. My commute is nearly identical to yours.

Oh yeah, I took the LEAF up to SF for our BayLEAFs gathering on June 4th. It was cold and rainy and I still got 7 mi/bar. Go figure.

I'm a full time D-mode driver now. Only use ECO when going through residential neighborhoods, where kids may spill out into the street. ECO is a good governor.
2011 LEAF SL brilliant silver + QC
DRL's, Seat Heaters, Horn, LEDs and EVSE upgrades
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mwalsh
Posts: 9659
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:09 am

gascant wrote:I had the opposite experience to you, Mike. On Sunday, my wife and I went for a "country" drive to a winery to pick up our club shipments. Then we took freeway for about 15 miles coming home. Whereas I normally lose the first bar at 6 miles, on Monday I lost it at 4.5. And I used 5 bars to get to work instead of 4. Tuesday, first bar went at 5 miles and I was thinking I would call up my PD and ask for a battery check. By today, I was back up to >6 for the first bar, and average of 7 overall. I pretty much count on 7/bar. My commute is nearly identical to yours.
Hmmm.....I haven't seen a full measure of use (without the aforementioned trickery) out of that first bar since the second week of ownership. Perhaps there is something wrong with my pack!
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 85,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

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garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12466
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:39 am

Presumably, to protect the cells when charging to 100%, the highest voltage cell-pair must stop the charging when it gets to the "100% user-full" level. Otherwise, continuing to charge would "over-fill" that highest cell-pair and possibly damage it, or shorten its useful life.

At that time, all the remaining cell-pairs will be slightly to somewhat "not-quite-full", and the Battery Pack will be at a slightly to significantly lower total voltage.

This could explain why we have seen "271" to "281" in the EV-CAN data for our presumed "State of Charge" (SOC) value.

Then, since the bars appear to be related to SOC levels, some (with "271") would lose their first bar sooner that somebody that started with "281"?

Perhaps gathering more data will help. I suspect that being able to see all the cell-pair voltages after a 100% charge would be very useful.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
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Randy
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Posts: 2160
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0191
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:14 am

evnow wrote:
mwalsh wrote:My experience thus far would seem to indicate that you'd eventually loose bars.
The user manual seems to say all 12 bars will be used - it will be a % of the total capacity.
I'll have to do some research. I thought that the number of small bars on the right would recede as capacity is lost over the years. If it doesn't act that way, then why does it light up all the short bars on the right? It doesn't make sense that they would always be lit no matter what the capacity is....

kmp647
Posts: 1136
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Nov 2011
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:20 am

from what I read in the manual capacity bars drop off as the battery degrades

so at some point you lose a bar

makes sense, its a capacity gauge
I wonder hown the guess o meter deals with the loss of battery capacity

hopefully it will be some time before we see the loss of the first bar

BTW how many bubbles does it take to keep the car at 60mph on level road?
65mph?
2012 SL Leaf
order 07/28/2011
took delivery 11/11/11
47,000 miles 10 bars 211 gids
Turned back into Nissan 12/31/14 @ 50,000 miles
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Randy
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Posts: 2160
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0191
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:21 am

I'm interpreting from the owners manual and the illustration below that "small" bars will be lost on the right as battery capacity falls off...

Image

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garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12466
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:34 am

It appears that one needs to lose something like 8.3% of the Battery Pack capacity before the top bar of the capacity gauge would not show.

It is not clear if the "fuel" gauge (bars) is showing the percent of present capacity (would be quite misleading and almost useless), or the percentage of the original capacity (which would be useful).

If the latter, a 100% charge will eventually be only "11-bars" worth of usable charge, not a "full" 12-bars worth of usable charge. If it continues to display 12 bars, then the usable "capacity" of each bar will be shrinking,

We shall see. Hopefully, the CAN-buss analysis will help us understand the car better.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:27 am

garygid wrote:It is not clear if the "fuel" gauge (bars) is showing the percent of present capacity (would be quite misleading and almost useless), or the percentage of the original capacity (which would be useful).
User Manual says it will always show full 12 bars at 100% capacity (ofcourse, subject to firmware changes).
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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TomT
Posts: 10645
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:59 am

Nope, not have I. My experience mirrors yours (minus the trickery)...
mwalsh wrote: Hmmm.....I haven't seen a full measure of use (without the aforementioned trickery) out of that first bar since the second week of ownership. Perhaps there is something wrong with my pack!
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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mwalsh
Posts: 9659
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Normal range from SOC bar 1 today?

Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:11 am

mogur wrote:Nope, not have I. My experience mirrors yours (minus the trickery)...
Well, glad to hear that it's abnormally normal! :lol:
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 85,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

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