Niro vs. Kona vs. Leaf Plus SV

[DougWantsALeaf]

Forum,

When looking at the Kia Niro vs. H. Kona vs. Nissan Leaf + SV all are about the same weight, 3,800 Lbs. (give or take 40 lbs). The Aerodynamic coefficient is the same for Leaf and Niro, and much higher for the Kona.

Kia/Hyundai are both at 64kWh, so the 2 kWh difference would account for about 8 miles of range difference.

What else is driving the range difference in range of 258, 239, and 215 for the Leaf SV.

The 43 mile difference in range between Kona and Leaf feels high given how similar the other aspects are for the 2 cars, especially given the .32 drag coe. vs. .29 for Leaf (and niro).

Inverter, tires, ...what else is driving the difference?

[LeftieBiker]

It's possible, that in upping the Leaf Plus inverter power output again, to push even more power through what is essentially the same motor that was putting out 108HP and now puts out 200+HP, some efficiency was lost.

[RonDawg]

Despite the Leaf "looking" aerodynamic, it actually seems LESS so than my much boxier looking eGolf. The reason I say that is at freeway speeds, the eGolf seems to use a bit less battery. I easily get 4-4.5 miles/kWH in the eGolf whereas with the Leaf I had to work to keep it above 4.

Both cars come from the factory with the Bridgestone Ecopia tires, though the ones that came with the eGolf seem to be MUCH better quality than the OEM Nissan version.

[iPlug]

What pre-tax prices were you offered on these vehicles?

We cross shopped the same vehicles as well. Dealers have added thousands to MSRP for Niro EV and Kona EV. Did not ask for a Leaf e-plus quote as were looking at the 2019 40kWh SV instead.

[lorenfb]

It's possible, that in upping the Leaf Plus inverter power output again, to push even more power through what is essentially the same motor that was putting out 108HP and now puts out 200+HP, some efficiency was lost.

Are you guessing, i.e. same motor or you do you have a source?

[DougWantsALeaf]

Leaf is already available nation wide for thousands under MSRP and then add the federal rebate. (State ones to for those in lucky states)

I spoke our Kia dealers and it doesn’t sound they are getting the Niro ev this year, so went with the Leaf Plus SV with Tech and Weather package.

Admittedly it’s about the same as the entry level Tesla 3 with no options. (Minus the fed rebates on both sides). The base 3 is a 50Kwh battery.

I am wagering with some small mods and 40psi, leaf + mileage will beat the sticker.

[LeftieBiker]

It's possible, that in upping the Leaf Plus inverter power output again, to push even more power through what is essentially the same motor that was putting out 108HP and now puts out 200+HP, some efficiency was lost.

Are you guessing, i.e. same motor or you do you have a source?

Cwerdna looked it up and posted it during our previous "discussion." The 2013+, 2018 and ePlus Leafs all use the EM57. I just verified it again.

viewtopic.php?f=55&p=552295

[DougWantsALeaf]

Yeah, I saw that they all use the same from the other thread.

Still curious about the mileage gap. I wonder where else there could be inefficiencies compared to Kia?

The Michelin tires appear to have a low rolling resistance.

[CTang]

According to this article, the Kona EV has a Cd of 0.29

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/10/th ... crossover/

It's hard to find the frontal area for the Leaf and Kona, but I'm guessing the Kona has a smaller frontal area so the resulting drag (Cd*A) is lower than the Leaf.

[lorenfb]

It's possible, that in upping the Leaf Plus inverter power output again, to push even more power through what is essentially the same motor that was putting out 108HP and now puts out 200+HP, some efficiency was lost.

Are you guessing, i.e. same motor or you do you have a source?

Cwerdna looked it up and posted it during our previous "discussion." The 2013+, 2018 and ePlus Leafs all use the EM57. I just verified it again.

viewtopic.php?f=55&p=552295

Then it's very doubtful that Nissan would design a motor that would have a noticeable loss of efficiency at higher power outputs.
Most likely the motor was initially designed for future higher outputs, as is typically done in key design areas, but was limited
to lower power outputs via the motor controller (inverter/ECU/module/whatever) when used with lower capacity batteries.
Without any very actual/actuate efficiency logging data, what the repeatability of the efficiency tests were, and how Nissan
setup the different models for the EPA tests and Nissan's desired results, one really is guessing as to the source of the
apparent differences.