Can I make it home?

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Jondrew

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2019
Messages
8
Hi,

Apologies for not reading all the FAQs and posts. Just found this website.

I’m picking up a 2017 leaf SL tomorrow. They promise it will be fully charged. Waze says its between 101 and 110 miles to get home.

1) If I drive 65 on the HW, no AC (this is florida) and otherwise do my best to drive efficiently, is there any chance I’ll make it home? (I doubt it)

2) Ive already set up a ChargePoint account. Assuming I can get 6.6Kw out of a station I find along the way, what’s the minimum charge time I should give it?

Obviously I’m a complete newbie here. I’m just trying to get it home so I can start learning what I’ve gotten myself into.

TIA
 
Probably not w/o a charge somewhere. See the 30 kWh range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295.

We don't know how much capacity the car has lost. The 30 kWh chart assumes a new battery. Best to slow down to make it. Driving efficiently == slowing down and not using HVAC. Also, make sure the tires are sufficiently inflated. Maybe pump them up to 40 to 42 psi cold inflation pressure? I run mine at least that high.

Make sure you using Plugshare (the app and web site) to find plenty of places to charge. Sign up for accounts for the charging networks in your area first and install their apps, since you probably don't have their card. Off the top of my head, I don't know the networks in your area, but you could also do Electrify America, EVgo and Blink (they suck).

If you found a L2 EVSE that is 6.6 kW (not that likely, since common commercial power is only 208 volts so on a 208 volt 30 amp EVSE, you'll get 5.7 to 6.2 kW, usually), if you got 6 kWh out of the wall (you can monitor this via ChargePoint app) after charging for a hour at 6 kW, figure may be 3 to 3.5 miles/kWh (there are charging losses) and thus 18 to 21 miles added for that each hour at 6 kW rate.

If you can find a CHAdeMO charger, that'd be better. Avoid stations w/low Plugshare scores and recent reports of being broken or blocked.

Make sure you use the % SoC display (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj-HF1NfP9A) and don't rely on the silly guess-o-meter on the right.

Keep in mind that on a 30 kWh Leaf even with a new battery, you do not have access to the entire battery. I think there are maybe 27.5 to 28 kWh usable? Maybe someone can correct me on this. (And, no, don't tell me what Leaf Spy says. That's calculated from gids * 77.5 watt-hours/gid. The 77.5 can be changed and may not be right anyway.)
 
I should add, ChargePoint app while charging will let you see the power level (in kW), charging graph and how much energy has been dispensed (in kWh).
 
Thanks so far! I figure worst case I’ll get close enough to home to get a flatbed tow :D
I was looking to pick up an older leaf, but the 80 mile battery would just barely make my new commute assuming a non degraded battery (60-70 mile per day). The 30KW battery in this 2017 should easily make it even if I only go to 80 to 90 percent charge nightly. According to the dealer, this 2017 only has 8 months in service on it. So I’m assuming I get full bars to start with. He said it had the most recent “recall”, which I interpreted to be the limited range fix.

My wife thinks I’m nuts for buying this car, but I see it as an experiment. I hadn't planned on buying an SL, but that’s what showed up. I was looking for the base model. There is an base model 2017 locally, but it has more than double miles and the paint is all dinged up and only $1k less.
 
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". 8 months in service doesn't mean much. There are calendar losses and also, high temps esp. coupled w/high SoC will degrade the battery more. In the '11 service manual, the 1st capacity bar is 15% capacity. The rest are 6.25% each. The table about capacity bars vs. capacity remaining went away from later service manuals and I'm not clear it's returned. Let's assume there's some loss and it's close to losing a bar.

The fix that you're referring to might be https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/.
 
In service hours must mean something. If the vehicle was not being used, I assume it was not being charged regularly. So it would have minimum charge cycles on it. I don’t know the build date. If it’s a 2017 model, I suppose it could be over 3 years old. I still have not laid eyes on it.

cwerdna said:
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". 8 months in service doesn't mean much. There are calendar losses and also, high temps esp. coupled w/high SoC will degrade the battery more. In the '11 service manual, the 1st capacity bar is 15% capacity. The rest are 6.25% each. The table about capacity bars vs. capacity remaining went away from later service manuals and I'm not clear it's returned. Let's assume there's some loss and it's close to losing a bar.

The fix that you're referring to might be https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/.
 
In service-hours means little. If it was kept at full charge or high SoC for prolonged periods, that's not good.

Although these are not necessarily the chemistry used in Leaf, I've never heard of any li-ion variant that likes being at a full charge (unlike lead-acid).
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

The chemistry on Leaf batteries seems to have improved starting with 4/2013 built Leafs thru model year '14. Model year '15 "lizard" pack (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490) seems best.

I have a 5/2013 built Leaf and am still 11 capacity bars in a warmer (but not hottest part) of the SF Bay Area. My Leaf Spy SOH is around 81.xx to 83.xx% now and I'm past 65K miles. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995 in blazing hot Phoenix has the same build month as me and lost his 4th bar on 8/23/2016. I lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=551301#p551301 points to a 12 bar '13 Leaf in the mild PNW at 100K miles. This would be impossible where I live and work. It's too hot here and doesn't get cold enough.

Awhile back, I came across an 8 bar loser (4 capacity bars left) at a Hon-duh dealer: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=552310#p552310. https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2531866716844750/ in the mild Pacific NW has a very early '11 and still has 9 bars left.

In comparison, another guy in the mild PNW at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1757297620968334/?hc_location=ufi lost his 7th bar in Dec 2017, probably because he didn't take good care of the battery.
 
Gets pretty hot here in Florida, which apparently is where this one lived. We’ll see. Once it gets home, it only has to make about 60% of the stated capacity per day.

cwerdna said:
In service-hours means little. If it was kept at full charge or high SoC for prolonged periods, that's not good.

Although these are not necessarily the chemistry used in Leaf, I've never heard of any li-ion variant that likes being at a full charge (unlike lead-acid).
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

The chemistry on Leaf batteries seems to have improved starting with 4/2013 built Leafs thru model year '14. Model year '15 "lizard" pack (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490) seems best.

I have a 5/2013 built Leaf and am still 11 capacity bars in a warmer (but not hottest part) of the SF Bay Area. My Leaf Spy SOH is around 81.xx to 83.xx% now and I'm past 65K miles. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995 in blazing hot Phoenix has the same build month as me and lost his 4th bar on 8/23/2016. I lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=551301#p551301 points to a 12 bar '13 Leaf in the mild PNW at 100K miles. This would be impossible where I live and work. It's too hot here and doesn't get cold enough.

Awhile back, I came across an 8 bar loser (4 capacity bars left) at a Hon-duh dealer: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=552310#p552310. https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2531866716844750/ in the mild Pacific NW has a very early '11 and still has 9 bars left.

In comparison, another guy in the mild PNW at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1757297620968334/?hc_location=ufi lost his 7th bar in Dec 2017, probably because he didn't take good care of the battery.
 
You WILL NOT MAKE IT without adding some charge on the way. This is From experience.

I bought my 2015 SL “New” from Fort Myers and drive it home to Bradenton, 101 miles. I stopped and gave it a L2 charge for 90 minutes which added about 35 miles of range. I made it home with range meter flashing 10 miles left on the range meter. I only drove it at 50 MPH on I75 with no AC and my wife following me. We stopped at a Nissan dealer after hours in Charlotte County and gave it a 90 minute L2 charge. Fortunately the charger was available after hours.

When I put LeafSpy on the Leaf a week later I found Battery SOH at 95%. It had been sitting about 11 months on dealer lots before I bought it and had already lost 5% of capacity just sitting.

Here’s LeafSpy a few months after I bought it. It had 500 miles on it by then.

vUtgmSXl.jpg


When I traded it in about 3 years later the SOH was 86% and still showed 12 bars. I traded it in on a 2018 SV w/40 kWh battery. That gave me a solid 130 miles of range locally and 115-120 on Hwy. 12 months later I traded that one in on a 2019 SL Plus w/62 kWh battery. That gives me 240 miles locally and 210 at 60 mph. I already put 2.100 miles on the 2019 Plus in 4 weeks. I routinely drive it across west coast to east coast Florida without needing a charge. This one is not a local only EV like the 30 kWh 2015 and 40 kWh 2018 was.
 
One good thing about the 30 kWh (and beyond) batteries is that their capacity warranty is 8 years/100K miles. If they hit 8 bars before expiration, you can receive a replacement. Problem is that don't know what 8 bars maps to. We can make assumptions about previous behavior and the '11 service manual table... or go by a new table in newer service manuals, if it exists.
 
My daily commute will be between 50 and 70 miles depending on traffic and route. We have other cars so that will be the only use of the car. Further, with my work schedule it will only be used 18 days a month. Hoping the car will last for that driving cycle maybe 3 years.

I know the 108 mile battery range. Am I hoping for too much to expect the car to provide 60% of its stated range for that long?


LeftieBiker said:
You really don't want to buy a leaf with unknown capacity, even a 30kwh version. It could be down two bars and lose more quickly, in your climate. Here's something else for you to read before signing:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030
 
Jondrew said:
My daily commute will be between 50 and 70 miles depending on traffic and route. We have other cars so that will be the only use of the car. Further, with my work schedule it will only be used 18 days a month. Hoping the car will last for that driving cycle maybe 3 years.

I know the 108 mile battery range. Am I hoping for too much to expect the car to provide 60% of its stated range for that long?

Depends on the speeds you drive at. I'd suggest planning on 50% of stated range, adjusted based on your actual trip speeds.

Range (EPA) is over a driving cycle, with varying speeds. Useful for comparison.

Electric cars will have different ranges at different speeds. The faster you go, the more energy per mile used, the shorter your range.

A 30kW 2017:

Commute at 70MPH+, probably not.
Commute with speeds matching the EPA cycle, probably, with less margin that I'd suggest.
Commute at 35MPH, lots of margin.

The battery capacity warranty is at about 65%, exact level is not known. Getting home with very low battery warning daily would be at minimum stressful.

See:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27677&p=547067#p547067
 
That’s great info. Seems like I’d be right on the hairy edge based on my driving habits and other conditions. Certainly I’d be using the AC (almost never heat, although I suppose occasionally). Parts of my route are 70 mph, parts sitting in traffic. Derating my distance by 50% just seems like over the limit for me. I can’t predict traffic, and having to stop at a charge station, even occasionally for commuting purposes won’t do. This sounds like a definite NO on this car for my needs.

Now I know what they mean by Range Anxiety

WetEV said:
Jondrew said:
My daily commute will be between 50 and 70 miles depending on traffic and route. We have other cars so that will be the only use of the car. Further, with my work schedule it will only be used 18 days a month. Hoping the car will last for that driving cycle maybe 3 years.

I know the 108 mile battery range. Am I hoping for too much to expect the car to provide 60% of its stated range for that long?

Depends on the speeds you drive at. I'd suggest planning on 50% of stated range, adjusted based on your actual trip speeds.

Range (EPA) is over a driving cycle, with varying speeds. Useful for comparison.

Electric cars will have different ranges at different speeds. The faster you go, the more energy per mile used, the shorter your range.

A 30kW 2017:

Commute at 70MPH+, probably not.
Commute with speeds matching the EPA cycle, probably, with less margin that I'd suggest.
Commute at 35MPH, lots of margin.

The battery capacity warranty is at about 65%, exact level is not known. Getting home with very low battery warning daily would be at minimum stressful.

See:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27677&p=547067#p547067
 
Jondrew said:
That’s great info. Seems like I’d be right on the hairy edge based on my driving habits and other conditions. Certainly I’d be using the AC (almost never heat, although I suppose occasionally). Parts of my route are 70 mph, parts sitting in traffic. Derating my distance by 50% just seems like over the limit for me. I can’t predict traffic, and having to stop at a charge station, even occasionally for commuting purposes won’t do. This sounds like a definite NO on this car for my needs.

Now I know what they mean by Range Anxiety

A larger battery size would handle this trip with no worries out to the warranty (8 years 100k miles). Might want to look at a 40kWh LEAF either new, or used in a few years.
 
I actually have a Model 3 on order I’m supposed to be picking up next week. We just decided we like our present cars (I have a 2018 Jeep Rubicon and my wife has a 2015 Lexus IS 250) and to go to a new EV would mean getting rid of one of those, neither of us is interested in that. So I’m going to cancel the Model 3, forget about this leaf and start looking for a cheapo beater like a Civic or something.

This is a great site. I look forward to an EV in the near future. Just not today. Thanks for the reality slap in the face.

WetEV said:
Jondrew said:
That’s great info. Seems like I’d be right on the hairy edge based on my driving habits and other conditions. Certainly I’d be using the AC (almost never heat, although I suppose occasionally). Parts of my route are 70 mph, parts sitting in traffic. Derating my distance by 50% just seems like over the limit for me. I can’t predict traffic, and having to stop at a charge station, even occasionally for commuting purposes won’t do. This sounds like a definite NO on this car for my needs.

Now I know what they mean by Range Anxiety

A larger battery size would handle this trip with no worries out to the warranty (8 years 100k miles). Might want to look at a 40kWh LEAF either new, or used in a few years.
 
AC has very little effect on range, heat can big time but not so much for AC.
I have a 24KWh Leaf which is down to 11 bars now and in the summer(even running AC) I wouldn't be afraid to go 60 miles, not much more though. I also generally drive 60-70 MPH, trying to keep up with traffic but not the people doing 70+.
Stop and go traffic is a friend of the Leaf, better range in such conditions than 70+ MPH, it's the one plus to such conditions and makes me feel better when stuck in traffic. With a 30KWh Leaf I'd hope you could regularly get 75?? miles keeping speeds under 70MPH, IMO anyway.
Now sub-zero temps, that's a different story. my 60+ mile Leaf can struggle to go 40 miles in such conditions, even 35 miles with blizzard winds but living if FL I doubt your Leaf would ever see such conditions......lucky Leaf ;)
As for your daily commute of 50-70 miles, the 70 miles should be doable in all but worst conditions but you'd want to charge to 100% and if you had the ability to plug even for an hour L2 or even a couple hours at 120v it should help limit some range anxiety. After having the Leaf a couple of weeks you'll start to learn how many miles you can go based on remaining SOC%. I basically never use the GOM but do use the SOC% all the time, it makes me wonder how I could get by with an EV or even PHEV that lacked that incredibly handy meter, unfortunately most do :( can you imagine a cell phone without SOC%? I sure can't!
 
Jondrew said:
I actually have a Model 3 on order I’m supposed to be picking up next week. We just decided we like our present cars (I have a 2018 Jeep Rubicon and my wife has a 2015 Lexus IS 250) and to go to a new EV would mean getting rid of one of those, neither of us is interested in that. So I’m going to cancel the Model 3, forget about this leaf and start looking for a cheapo beater like a Civic or something.

This is a great site. I look forward to an EV in the near future. Just not today. Thanks for the reality slap in the face.

WetEV said:
Jondrew said:
That’s great info. Seems like I’d be right on the hairy edge based on my driving habits and other conditions. Certainly I’d be using the AC (almost never heat, although I suppose occasionally). Parts of my route are 70 mph, parts sitting in traffic. Derating my distance by 50% just seems like over the limit for me. I can’t predict traffic, and having to stop at a charge station, even occasionally for commuting purposes won’t do. This sounds like a definite NO on this car for my needs.

Now I know what they mean by Range Anxiety

A larger battery size would handle this trip with no worries out to the warranty (8 years 100k miles). Might want to look at a 40kWh LEAF either new, or used in a few years.
If you can stand it's cramped cockpit, the Volt might be a better option for you. Even an older one with the smaller battery could give you 40 miles of EV range and the advantage of a Volt(or any PHEV) is once the battery gets low, the ICE kicks in and you can continue on your way. I really liked the Volt but it was just too tight for me. In my area anyway, a similar year Volt isn't much more than a Leaf although most Volts have much much higher mileage(like 150k miles vs 40k for a similar year Leaf). A Volt would probably be a nice introduction into EVs and due to it's active cooling of the battery handle heat much better than a Leaf, something important in your area.
 
A guy I work with is a Voltaholic. I think he has 3. Not my cup of tea though. I want to go full EV or not bother. Kia makes a nice hybrid, the Nico. The base model gets 50 mpg. I drove one last week and liked it a lot. Lots of space, very safe car and of course Kia’s super warranty. It might still be on my short list. 50 MPG would be almost as cheap as an EV. But now we’re creeping past the $20k price and I want to get down below $15 since this is nothing but a commuter. I know I could get a real “beater”, but I’d prefer something with some mfg warranty left just in case, plus a lot of the latest safety features.

jjeff said:
Jondrew said:
I actually have a Model 3 on order I’m supposed to be picking up next week. We just decided we like our present cars (I have a 2018 Jeep Rubicon and my wife has a 2015 Lexus IS 250) and to go to a new EV would mean getting rid of one of those, neither of us is interested in that. So I’m going to cancel the Model 3, forget about this leaf and start looking for a cheapo beater like a Civic or something.

This is a great site. I look forward to an EV in the near future. Just not today. Thanks for the reality slap in the face.

WetEV said:
A larger battery size would handle this trip with no worries out to the warranty (8 years 100k miles). Might want to look at a 40kWh LEAF either new, or used in a few years.
If you can stand it's cramped cockpit, the Volt might be a better option for you. Even an older one with the smaller battery could give you 40 miles of EV range and the advantage of a Volt(or any PHEV) is once the battery gets low, the ICE kicks in and you can continue on your way. I really liked the Volt but it was just too tight for me. In my area anyway, a similar year Volt isn't much more than a Leaf although most Volts have much much higher mileage(like 150k miles vs 40k for a similar year Leaf). A Volt would probably be a nice introduction into EVs and due to it's active cooling of the battery handle heat much better than a Leaf, something important in your area.
 
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