Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

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DougWantsALeaf

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https://www.chademo.com/boost-mode-cable/

Its not clear on exactly how long or how much boost you will be able to get once this is implemented, but if the gear permits it, I would take a 15 minute boost from 50 to 100KW to shorten charging time.

Hopefully this makes quick top offs available for current gen Chademos (aka sans liquid cooling on the charging cable).
 
Interesting article Doug. I’m not sure I get what is doing the job though. The whole charger? Software and a special connecter? I guess what I’m getting at is, can a 100 KW existing DCFC be modified or is a whole new cabinet required. Kinda cool though.
 
I would just hope that at a boost charger when at a low SOC (say 5-10%) I could get the full 100 kWh charging rate for a few minutes.

Now that I have found a couple chargers that will give me over 70kWh, the “old” Chademos which charge at 35-40 feel incredibly slow.

All that said, we still usually charge at 110 at home (even with the plus battery) as we don’t drive much outside of my road trips with the car.
 
webeleafowners said:
Interesting article Doug. I’m not sure I get what is doing the job though. The whole charger? Software and a special connecter? I guess what I’m getting at is, can a 100 KW existing DCFC be modified or is a whole new cabinet required. Kinda cool though.
As I understand it:

A CHAdeMO cable/plug in No. America is typically limited to 125 Amps -- Period. *
This Boost mode allows 200 Amps if the cable/plug is below some specified threshold temperature.

Without information of the temperature threshold, or how quickly temperature rises at 100 Amps, there is no way to know the practical utility. It would be tempting to speculate that boost will operate during the winter but then the cold battery becomes the Amp limit. And in the older gen LEAFs that have power electronics limited to 100 Amps this boost mode of CHAdeMO makes no difference at all. A Tesla might be able to utilize 200 Amps if the CHAdeMO adapter is upgraded from its present 125 Amp limit.

I asked Miimura at TMC not too long ago why the Amp rating for CHAdeMO is so much lower than Tesla when both are using non-liquid cooling cables. He thought the major difference was Japanese engineering conservatism and not the hardware. This boost mode would be consistent with a loosening of the engineering spec and perhaps component hardware more suitable for the higher current.
 
Sounds interesting. For older LEAFs, only the 30 kwh LEAFs can charge beyond 125 amps. The boost would be fine for me as I wouldn't see that high rate of charging for much more than 15-20 mins under "any" circumstances.

By the way; Has anyone noticed the differences between the 150 KW CCS cables and the 50 KW chademo cables on the EA Stations?
 
SageBrush said:
webeleafowners said:
Interesting article Doug. I’m not sure I get what is doing the job though. The whole charger? Software and a special connecter? I guess what I’m getting at is, can a 100 KW existing DCFC be modified or is a whole new cabinet required. Kinda cool though.
As I understand it:

A CHAdeMO cable/plug in No. America is typically limited to 125 Amps -- Period. *
This Boost mode allows 200 Amps if the cable/plug is below some specified threshold temperature.

Without information of the temperature threshold, or how quickly temperature rises at 100 Amps, there is no way to know the practical utility. It would be tempting to speculate that boost will operate during the winter but then the cold battery becomes the Amp limit. And in the older gen LEAFs that have power electronics limited to 100 Amps this boost mode of CHAdeMO makes no difference at all. A Tesla might be able to utilize 200 Amps if the CHAdeMO adapter is upgraded from its present 125 Amp limit.

I asked Miimura at TMC not too long ago why the Amp rating for CHAdeMO is so much lower than Tesla when both are using non-liquid cooling cables. He thought the major difference was Japanese engineering conservatism and not the hardware. This boost mode would be consistent with a loosening of the engineering spec and perhaps component hardware more suitable for the higher current.

Think I got it. Essentially, if a provider switches out the cable and plug for this companies it can provide at least for a short time a peak charge closer to our 100 KW max.
 
webeleafowners said:
Think I got it. Essentially, if a provider switches out the cable and plug for this companies it can provide at least for a short time a peak charge closer to our 100 KW max.
You are presuming that the electricity supply can go higher than what is presently being supplied. That would be a maybe.

NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW. If the entire path is able to take 200 Amps, the battery will max that current at ~ 370 Volts for a peak power of 200*370*10^-3 = 74 kW.

The "100 kW" designation comes from chargers able to supply 500 Volts and 200 Amps. The current Porsche may be different but every other EV becomes current limited at ~ 380 Volts (or less.)
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
So the 73.5 kWh I saw at the EA stop was basically the theoretical peak?

No chance I can see 80 or 90 with a very low SOC and spicy new EA Chademo?
That's right, if you are talking about kW

And in fact at low SoC the power will be less than peak. Peak power occurs at ~ 370 battery pack voltage
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I would just hope that at a boost charger when at a low SOC (say 5-10%) I could get the full 100 kWh charging rate for a few minutes.

Now that I have found a couple chargers that will give me over 70kWh, the “old” Chademos which charge at 35-40 feel incredibly slow.
DougWantsALeaf said:
So the 73.5 kWh I saw at the EA stop was basically the theoretical peak?
You mean kW? Charging rate is measured in kW.

Battery capacity and energy are measured in kWh. You have a 62 kWh battery Leaf Plus,..

If you have a 1000 watt device running for 1 hour, it will have drawn 1000 watt-hours or 1 kWh. Ditto for a 1 watt device running for 1000 hours.

Charging at 50 kW for 1 hour -> 50 kWh dispensed. 50 kW for 2 hours --> 100 kWh dispensed.
 
SageBrush said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
So the 73.5 kWh I saw at the EA stop was basically the theoretical peak?

No chance I can see 80 or 90 with a very low SOC and spicy new EA Chademo?
That's right.

And in fact at low SoC the power will be less than peak. Peak power occurs at ~ 370 battery pack voltage

Interesting stuff Sagebrush. Thanks for posting. You and Leftie are great resources on this board. Always enjoy reading both of your posts.
 
webeleafowners said:
SageBrush said:
And in fact at low SoC the power will be less than peak. Peak power occurs at ~ 370 battery pack voltage

Interesting stuff Sagebrush. Thanks for posting. You and Leftie are great resources on this board. Always enjoy reading both of your posts.
.
You are welcome.

This is why people talk about 'current limited'

The idea is that from a low SoC the car sets the highest Amps it can take and the charger pushes that much current if it can (or whatever its maximum might be. As the battery fills the voltage increases and since power = volts * amps the power increases ... until a voltage threshold where the battery electronics progressively throttle the Amp current. The voltage continues to rise but the drop in current is greater so the power drops.

The power curve looks like an upside down bathtub outline.
 
The latest electrified journeys video on you tube mentions that some of the next gen 900 Kilowatt Chademo chargers are being installed.

Not sure what car will be able to use that amount of power, but I guess no car can really use the 350 ccs chargers fully yet either.
 
SageBrush said:
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.

The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )
 
NotATesla said:
SageBrush said:
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.

The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )

Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw. If you look at nominal figures and current you could rationalize that if 125 amp machines charge to as much as 49 kw (only on 30 kwh packs mind you) then 250 amps could be construed as a 100 kw rate although not quite true. So what is the max current people are seeing? iirc I think someone mentioned slightly over 200 which would be a theoretical 80 kw. Don't know is that was machine limited or car limited. We currently don't have any high speed chademo here so have to go on what is reported at the few locations that do.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
NotATesla said:
SageBrush said:
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.

The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )

Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw.

kW is the rate of charge which can reach 100kW for the Nissan Leaf + at peak. I am not suggesting that the car will charge at 100kW or average 100kW for the duration of the charging session.

The max charge rate we have seen for our car is 74kW at an Electrify America station. The sticker on it stated 50kW but peak was higher than this and averaged higher for 15 minute charge session.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.

Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
 
danrjones said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.

Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW

Speaking of which. One of the folks on Facebook reported 76 Kw (and an apparent screen shot) on a new 2019 Eplus at one of the new BC hydro Chademo s. I don’t think they are charging for it yet as they usually don’t charge for the first 6 months in operation. Debugging?
 
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