cwerdna
Posts: 9664
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Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:56 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:50 am
I would just hope that at a boost charger when at a low SOC (say 5-10%) I could get the full 100 kWh charging rate for a few minutes.

Now that I have found a couple chargers that will give me over 70kWh, the “old” Chademos which charge at 35-40 feel incredibly slow.
DougWantsALeaf wrote: So the 73.5 kWh I saw at the EA stop was basically the theoretical peak?
You mean kW? Charging rate is measured in kW.

Battery capacity and energy are measured in kWh. You have a 62 kWh battery Leaf Plus,..

If you have a 1000 watt device running for 1 hour, it will have drawn 1000 watt-hours or 1 kWh. Ditto for a 1 watt device running for 1000 hours.

Charging at 50 kW for 1 hour -> 50 kWh dispensed. 50 kW for 2 hours --> 100 kWh dispensed.

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webeleafowners
Posts: 842
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Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:02 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:42 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:37 am
So the 73.5 kWh I saw at the EA stop was basically the theoretical peak?

No chance I can see 80 or 90 with a very low SOC and spicy new EA Chademo?
That's right.

And in fact at low SoC the power will be less than peak. Peak power occurs at ~ 370 battery pack voltage
Interesting stuff Sagebrush. Thanks for posting. You and Leftie are great resources on this board. Always enjoy reading both of your posts.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
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SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:26 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:02 am
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:42 am
And in fact at low SoC the power will be less than peak. Peak power occurs at ~ 370 battery pack voltage
Interesting stuff Sagebrush. Thanks for posting. You and Leftie are great resources on this board. Always enjoy reading both of your posts.
.
You are welcome.

This is why people talk about 'current limited'

The idea is that from a low SoC the car sets the highest Amps it can take and the charger pushes that much current if it can (or whatever its maximum might be. As the battery fills the voltage increases and since power = volts * amps the power increases ... until a voltage threshold where the battery electronics progressively throttle the Amp current. The voltage continues to rise but the drop in current is greater so the power drops.

The power curve looks like an upside down bathtub outline.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
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03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:11 am

The latest electrified journeys video on you tube mentions that some of the next gen 900 Kilowatt Chademo chargers are being installed.

Not sure what car will be able to use that amount of power, but I guess no car can really use the 350 ccs chargers fully yet either.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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NotATesla
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:06 am
Delivery Date: 23 May 2019
Leaf Number: 311925

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.
The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )
2019 SL Plus Silver

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14099
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:28 am

NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 am
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.
The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )
Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw. If you look at nominal figures and current you could rationalize that if 125 amp machines charge to as much as 49 kw (only on 30 kwh packs mind you) then 250 amps could be construed as a 100 kw rate although not quite true. So what is the max current people are seeing? iirc I think someone mentioned slightly over 200 which would be a theoretical 80 kw. Don't know is that was machine limited or car limited. We currently don't have any high speed chademo here so have to go on what is reported at the few locations that do.
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NotATesla
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:06 am
Delivery Date: 23 May 2019
Leaf Number: 311925

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:28 am
NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 am
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am
NO LEAF has been made that will take 100 kW.
The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )
Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw.
kW is the rate of charge which can reach 100kW for the Nissan Leaf + at peak. I am not suggesting that the car will charge at 100kW or average 100kW for the duration of the charging session.

The max charge rate we have seen for our car is 74kW at an Electrify America station. The sticker on it stated 50kW but peak was higher than this and averaged higher for 15 minute charge session.
2019 SL Plus Silver

DougWantsALeaf
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am

Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
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2013 Leaf SV
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
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webeleafowners
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 am

danrjones wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
Speaking of which. One of the folks on Facebook reported 76 Kw (and an apparent screen shot) on a new 2019 Eplus at one of the new BC hydro Chademo s. I don’t think they are charging for it yet as they usually don’t charge for the first 6 months in operation. Debugging?
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