danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:29 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 am
danrjones wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
Speaking of which. One of the folks on Facebook reported 76 Kw (and an apparent screen shot) on a new 2019 Eplus at one of the new BC hydro Chademo s. I don’t think they are charging for it yet as they usually don’t charge for the first 6 months in operation. Debugging?
It sure would be nice if Nissan gave you a way to set a charge rate limit, such as 70 KW max, along with the missing charge % limit. Seems like turning off the charging at a certain % would be easy, since they can turn it off with a timer. Not sure about limiting Fast Charge though to a certain KW?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am

I don’t think Chademo ever goes to the next cost level, as it’s stated as 50.

At the faster EA station I was still above 60 at 50% SOC.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:37 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
I don’t think Chademo ever goes to the next cost level, as it’s stated as 50.

At the faster EA station I was still above 60 at 50% SOC.
What was the sticker (50kW, etc) on the faster station?

What was your battery temps?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Posts: 4725
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:03 pm

NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:28 am
NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 am


The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to take 100kW. Otherwise why would their website say:
45 MINUTES
62 kWh BATTERY 80% CHARGE: [*]
100 kWh DC QUICK CHARGE (clearly they meant kW here :roll: )
Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw.
kW is the rate of charge which can reach 100kW for the Nissan Leaf + at peak. I am not suggesting that the car will charge at 100kW or average 100kW for the duration of the charging session.

The max charge rate we have seen for our car is 74kW at an Electrify America station. The sticker on it stated 50kW but peak was higher than this and averaged higher for 15 minute charge session.
200 Amp max. I leave the rest of the arithmetic to you
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

NotATesla
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:06 am
Delivery Date: 23 May 2019
Leaf Number: 311925

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:58 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:03 pm
NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:28 am


Even that example doesn't equate to 100 KW. You are getting what? Maybe 45 kwh in 45 mins. That is 60 kw. Figure in the inevitable ramp down and its still nowhere near 100 kw.
kW is the rate of charge which can reach 100kW for the Nissan Leaf + at peak. I am not suggesting that the car will charge at 100kW or average 100kW for the duration of the charging session.

The max charge rate we have seen for our car is 74kW at an Electrify America station. The sticker on it stated 50kW but peak was higher than this and averaged higher for 15 minute charge session.
200 Amp max. I leave the rest of the arithmetic to you
What is setting the 200 amp max? Chademo 2.0 supports 400 amp.

Trying to understand why 100kW peak isn't possible?
2019 SL Plus Silver

SageBrush
Posts: 4725
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:48 am

NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:58 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:03 pm
NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:57 am


kW is the rate of charge which can reach 100kW for the Nissan Leaf + at peak. I am not suggesting that the car will charge at 100kW or average 100kW for the duration of the charging session.

The max charge rate we have seen for our car is 74kW at an Electrify America station. The sticker on it stated 50kW but peak was higher than this and averaged higher for 15 minute charge session.
200 Amp max. I leave the rest of the arithmetic to you
What is setting the 200 amp max? Chademo 2.0 supports 400 amp.

Trying to understand why 100kW peak isn't possible?
Charging power is always the lesser of:

1. Charger maximum of amperage and voltage. For EA, I think it is 500 Amps and 700 volts (not sure)
2. Protocol maximum
3. Cable maximum. At EA, 200 Amps for CHAdeMO, I think 400 Amps for the CCS cable. EA currently derates CHAdeMO to 100 Amps pending resolution of problems at higher rates.
4. Car electronics maximum. New LEAF, 200 Amps. Old LEAF, 125 Amps
5. Car Amperage maximum by cell voltage. Amperage tapers down after ~ 3.75 volts
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

NotATesla
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:06 am
Delivery Date: 23 May 2019
Leaf Number: 311925

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:48 am
NotATesla wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:58 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:03 pm

200 Amp max. I leave the rest of the arithmetic to you
What is setting the 200 amp max? Chademo 2.0 supports 400 amp.

Trying to understand why 100kW peak isn't possible?
Charging power is always the lesser of:

1. Charger maximum of amperage and voltage. For EA, I think it is 500 Amps and 700 volts (not sure)
2. Protocol maximum
3. Cable maximum. At EA, 200 Amps for CHAdeMO, I think 400 Amps for the CCS cable. EA currently derates CHAdeMO to 100 Amps pending resolution of problems at higher rates.
4. Car electronics maximum. New LEAF, 200 Amps. Old LEAF, 125 Amps
5. Car Amperage maximum by cell voltage. Amperage tapers down after ~ 3.75 volts
All of this I understand. For #3 that doesn't mean charging above 200 amps isn't possible, it just means you can't do it at the provided EA chargers.

What I didn't know is #4, where did you learn this information? I haven't seen a limit of 200 amps for the leaf posted anywhere.
2019 SL Plus Silver

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14099
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am

danrjones wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
The rate is based on the station you plug into. 50 KW will never charge the higher rate no matter how fast you charge. Conversely, you plug into a 150 KW station with a 100 KW car that whose SOC is past the knee and you never get more than 40 kw, you will still be charged the higher rate.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4725
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:14 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am
Conversely, you plug into a 150 KW station with a 100 KW car that whose SOC is past the knee and you never get more than 40 kw, you will still be charged the higher rate.
Are you sure, as in proven by experience ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:17 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am
danrjones wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:13 am
Even 73-74 feels a good step faster than the 44 you usually get from the older Chademos.

Guess we need the new EVGo stations up to see if the Leaf can do better.
Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
The rate is based on the station you plug into. 50 KW will never charge the higher rate no matter how fast you charge. Conversely, you plug into a 150 KW station with a 100 KW car that whose SOC is past the knee and you never get more than 40 kw, you will still be charged the higher rate.
So if you plugged a 50 kW CCS into one of the 150 or even 350 kW plugs, and never drew more than a peak of 50 kW, you get charged at a higher rate? That's not what I expected.

On their website they say "Our DC fast charging stations have a range of 50kW, 150kW, and 350kW chargers. These kW values refer to the maximum power each charger can provide"

For CA, their rate plans are listed at 75 or less, 125 or less and 350 or less.

So to hit 75, wouldn't you "theoretically" have to use the 150kW charger?

Sorry, something just doesn't make sense.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”