Thoth1987
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:15 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2019
Location: British Columbia

Weather reduction on range

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Hi all, I'm a very fresh EV owner. I've had mine for about 4/5 months and have put just over 15000 kms on it so far. 2017 S 30kwh. Loving it to pieces. The temp outside has gotten to 6-12 degrees Celsius regularly over the last week here[live in BC Canada]and I've noticed my drive to work typically took about 23% to do, but now takes about 35%. Even when I used the AC and occasionally the heater for the whole trip it was still 22-25% per trip. So now instead of about 50% for the whole day it's closer to 65%. I use a level 1 charger at home so I'm going to have to use the chargers a block or 2 away from work every 2nd or 3rd day now. Really not a problem, still much better than our outrageous gas prices but I'm really curious as to why. Does a 10 degree drop in weather really cause this much power loss? It's also been raining a fair bit but ever when it's not the range is still poop. And if the temp drop is the main culprit - does that mean when it gets to -5 - -10 Celsius that it'll be even worse?
I've also got 17" winter tires on now, switched from the factory M+S 16" wheel/tire combo. Current tires are at 36psi and are just a good set of generic winter tires, nothing 'ev specific'. Could that also be a factor?
Thanks in advance
2017 Leaf S 30 KWH

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13218
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Weather reduction on range

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:36 pm

This is why we ask people to put their year and model Leaf in their signature line, via the user control panel. In your case we don't even know for a fact that it's a Leaf! I'm assuming that it is a Leaf, and here is the situation: cold weather always reduces EV range. Between the drop in battery chemical efficiency, increased use of the heater (the #1 factor) and increased rolling resistance, this is inevitable. Do you have a Leaf S? because if you do, then the resistance heater that provides all of the car's heat really uses a lot of power, even in milder temps. Canadians should avoid Leafs with no heat pump-assisted heat for this reason - although once temps drop below something like -5 to -10C it no longer matters, because all Leafs rely on resistance heat from that point down. I hope that you at least have the heated seats and steering wheel...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 993
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Weather reduction on range

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:40 pm

Just finished my first “colder run” in the Leaf Plus. 48-51F outside for 470 miles today (Chicago to Door County and back). You can definitely feel the slightly diminished range (thicker air?). I was driving to match speed to destination in the last hour, so if I was babying it, i don’t know what would have been the true delta vs. prior long drives. At the rate I was going extrapolating to a full tank, would say the range was about 210 max given speed and cold.

They really need a fast charger installed North of Milwaukee. Level 2 doesn’t cut it.

Left 100% ; arrived EVGo on Capitol at 69% ; nctc to 92% ; arrived door county at 21% ; level 1 and 2 to 80% ; arrived capitol EVGo at 3% ; charged to 40% to drive back to Chicago. Arrived home at 2% and 5.5kWh remaining per Leafspy.

Efficiency was upper 3’s for most of the highway sections.

65-70 most of the drive except for construction zones (a couple nasty ones at night between Chicago and Milwaukee). Bits a little faster or slower.

With fast charging, doing over 500 miles in a normal day I think is very doable.
Last edited by DougWantsALeaf on Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13218
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:30 am

You can definitely feel the slightly finished range (thicker air?).
Reduced? Diminished? I assume that was voice to text at work.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 993
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:33 am

Yes, sorry will fix.

Additional notes are that at about 50F I think is Goldilocks outside temp for the car as even during relatively fast driving (70-75 is fast for me) the temp stayed constant and after quick charge (temp rose 9F over the 35 minutes of charging at 35kW) the temp declines by 5 of those degrees in the 90 minutes of driving post the charge.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

Atomicleaf
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Nov 2014

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:15 am

Thoth1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:27 pm
Hi all, I'm a very fresh EV owner. I've had mine for about 4/5 months and have put just over 15000 kms on it so far. 2017 S 30kwh. Loving it to pieces. The temp outside has gotten to 6-12 degrees Celsius regularly over the last week here[live in BC Canada]and I've noticed my drive to work typically took about 23% to do, but now takes about 35%. Even when I used the AC and occasionally the heater for the whole trip it was still 22-25% per trip. So now instead of about 50% for the whole day it's closer to 65%. I use a level 1 charger at home so I'm going to have to use the chargers a block or 2 away from work every 2nd or 3rd day now. Really not a problem, still much better than our outrageous gas prices but I'm really curious as to why. Does a 10 degree drop in weather really cause this much power loss? It's also been raining a fair bit but ever when it's not the range is still poop. And if the temp drop is the main culprit - does that mean when it gets to -5 - -10 Celsius that it'll be even worse?
I've also got 17" winter tires on now, switched from the factory M+S 16" wheel/tire combo. Current tires are at 36psi and are just a good set of generic winter tires, nothing 'ev specific'. Could that also be a factor?
Thanks in advance
I would suspect the range hit was mostly caused by the change in tires than the temperature.
2015 Leaf S, purchased used 5/18

css28
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Aug 2019
Location: Bloomfield Twp, Michigan

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:37 am

Thoth1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:27 pm
Hi all, I'm a very fresh EV owner. I've had mine for about 4/5 months and have put just over 15000 kms on it so far. 2017 S 30kwh. Loving it to pieces. The temp outside has gotten to 6-12 degrees Celsius regularly over the last week here[live in BC Canada]and I've noticed my drive to work typically took about 23% to do, but now takes about 35%. Even when I used the AC and occasionally the heater for the whole trip it was still 22-25% per trip. So now instead of about 50% for the whole day it's closer to 65%. I use a level 1 charger at home so I'm going to have to use the chargers a block or 2 away from work every 2nd or 3rd day now. Really not a problem, still much better than our outrageous gas prices but I'm really curious as to why. Does a 10 degree drop in weather really cause this much power loss? It's also been raining a fair bit but ever when it's not the range is still poop. And if the temp drop is the main culprit - does that mean when it gets to -5 - -10 Celsius that it'll be even worse?
I've also got 17" winter tires on now, switched from the factory M+S 16" wheel/tire combo. Current tires are at 36psi and are just a good set of generic winter tires, nothing 'ev specific'. Could that also be a factor?
Thanks in advance
Does your level 1 home charging take too long to replenish 65% of the battery? Do have any access to a 240V outlet in your garage? I'd seriously consider such if it will save you having to charge away from home on a regular basis.

I believe your winter tires are responsible for the biggest hit here. Low rolling resistance tires would have made a big difference, and, honestly, changing to the larger wheels probably added to your energy consumption, too. My '17 SV has the 17 inch wheels and if I decide to put winter tires on the car, I'll probably go the other direction and put 16" wheels on for that.
Wet pavement and head winds can deal a blow as well.

You will find that the range gets worse as the temperatures get colder still, since lubricant drag, wind resistance, rolling resistance, heating power draw will all get worse with the colder temps. Have you heated seats and a heated steering wheel? Consider making major use of those if they'll let you turn the heater down. Experiment!
- Chris
----------
2017 SV, purchased 8/10/19, Coulis red

jjeff
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:59 am

Thoth1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:27 pm
Hi all, I'm a very fresh EV owner. I've had mine for about 4/5 months and have put just over 15000 kms on it so far. 2017 S 30kwh. Loving it to pieces. The temp outside has gotten to 6-12 degrees Celsius regularly over the last week here[live in BC Canada]and I've noticed my drive to work typically took about 23% to do, but now takes about 35%. Even when I used the AC and occasionally the heater for the whole trip it was still 22-25% per trip. So now instead of about 50% for the whole day it's closer to 65%. I use a level 1 charger at home so I'm going to have to use the chargers a block or 2 away from work every 2nd or 3rd day now. Really not a problem, still much better than our outrageous gas prices but I'm really curious as to why. Does a 10 degree drop in weather really cause this much power loss? It's also been raining a fair bit but ever when it's not the range is still poop. And if the temp drop is the main culprit - does that mean when it gets to -5 - -10 Celsius that it'll be even worse?
I've also got 17" winter tires on now, switched from the factory M+S 16" wheel/tire combo. Current tires are at 36psi and are just a good set of generic winter tires, nothing 'ev specific'. Could that also be a factor?
Thanks in advance
As Leftie said, since you have an S model(as do I) even using the heat sparengly it will really kill your range, a Leaf with a heat pump heater and temps you described will basically effect range similar to the A/C, IOW very little. Again like Leftie said, once you get into the single digits and colder(F) the heat pump Leaf will be basically like our S models. Moderate use of heat really kills your range when using the regular resistive heater(S model heater and heat pump heater in single-digit(F) and colder temps) even when new it made my 70 mile Leaf barely able to make 60 miles(I have the old 24 kWh battery). The more you use your heater the more it will affect your range. What I do but you really need a L2 EVSE to make it work is to preheat my Leaf whenever the temps are going to drop below say 20F. Starting out with a 80F interior lets you just use the heater while driving minimally, increasing your range, otherwise not a whole lot you can do if you like heat or even need heat to defrost your windshield.
Another thing no one touched on(well Chris did slip in before my post, while I was composing it :lol: ) were your tires, they can make a BIG difference and if you were going from very low rolling resistance(LRR) to snow tires, which are inherently much higher RR, that will also make a big difference on your range. If you had Bridgestone Ecopias(about lowest RR as you can find) and switched to a set of generic snows, that would be a BIG hit.
I personally was looking into snows for my '12SL, Michelin X-ICE3 are supposed to be somewhat low RR, nothing like Ecopias but good for snows but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with a good set of "winter rated"(mountain peak icon on the tire) all seasons. I like the Michelin Cross Climates but I'm also looking into the Firestone Weathergrips as I'm thinking I can get them for roughly $43USD less(per tire) than the Michelins.......so far I haven't found a good site comparing the RRs of either of these "winter rated" all seasons, that will also affect my decision but yes, tires make a BIG difference on range. Oh and lastly, I'd personally suggest near the max inflation pressure on whatever tire you get, I usually run 44psi on my Ecopias, which I believe is near max, this also helps range and I personally don't feel it affects the ride all that much.
Last edited by jjeff on Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

nlspace
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2017

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:07 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:36 pm
This is why we ask people to put their year and model Leaf in their signature line, via the user control panel. In your case we don't even know for a fact that it's a Leaf! I'm assuming that it is a Leaf, and...
Way to go Mr Modjulator--are you trying to run the new guy off on his first post? And without even a word of Welcome? Too bad we can't block high frequency (low S/N) posters on this forum.

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Weather reduction on range

Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:17 am

For winter in places where it gets cold you will probably really want to get level 2 charging at home. Even if it's just a lowly 16 amp 240v evse setup.
A 16 amp 240v evse will charge nearly 4 times faster than 12 amp 120v trickle charging.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”