Spacedogb
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:35 pm
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Leaf Number: 411097

What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Hello everyone,
I have been lerking around the forum for several months and I purchased a 2013 Leaf from CarMax in May. The car was purchased and lived its life in Northern VA until I purchased it. I got it with 22,000 miles. It had 11 bars upon purchase. I have never quick charged and I always plug when i get home. I charge on 110v and usually activate charge when i get home and only charge to 80%. I have a 8 mile drive to work and usually top back off to 80% while at work on the 110v charger. I used to use the charge timer but i was unable to get enough range in the time allotted. I recently started using the app to activate climate control. Last night it was freezing temps and this morning i got up and lost a capacity bar and I'm down to 10 bars at 28,241miles. Ive been searching and I can't find a definitive answer as to if I'm doing something wrong. Thanks in advance for any response and yes I've searched the forums lol

LeftieBiker
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:35 pm

You may have an early build Leaf with the terrible 1st generation battery chemistry. Look on the driver's side door sill for the build month and year. If it is before April of 2013* then it's the old chemistry and you are doing nothing wrong - it's Nissan' s fault. If the build date is later, then heat is the likely culprit. Does the battery temp regularly go above 6 or 7 bars on the temp gauge? Do you quick charge it while hot?

The only good news here is that with an 8 mile commute, you should have enough range even at 80%. I would suggest that you not top off at work if not necessary. Using the climate control timer should be harmless to the battery. Is this a Leaf S with resistance heat only? There are tricks to reduce the heating power consumption.



* There have been one or two April build cars that seem to have the old chemistry. Most do not.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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davewill
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:45 pm

The car was probably already on the edge of losing that bar. Battery degradation in these cars is a function of time and climate rather than mileage, so the fact your car is low mileage is not really helpful. While you will see endless threads about charging to certain levels or how bad it is (or isn't) to quick charge, the facts are that those behaviors don't really change the equation much, either. That's why you'll hear about some high mileage cars that don't seem to have a lot of degradation.

You sound like you're doing everything right, it's just how these cars are.
Last edited by davewill on Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

LeftieBiker
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:53 pm

Battery degradation in these cars is a function of time and climate rather than mileage, so the fact your car is low mileage is not really helpful.

The 2011-3/2013 cars definitely have 'calendar losses' but the new battery chemistries seem to lose capacity mainly because of heat and long term high states of charge. Still, since most Leafs reside in climates warm enough to cause degradation in Summer, I guess that this will be hard to separate from time passing alone.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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davewill
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:09 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:53 pm
The 2011-3/2013 cars definitely have 'calendar losses' but the new battery chemistries seem to lose capacity mainly because of heat and long term high states of charge. Still, since most Leafs reside in climates warm enough to cause degradation in Summer, I guess that this will be hard to separate from time passing alone.
I never said time passing alone. I said it was a "function of time and CLIMATE". Which isn't much different from what you said since there's no way that time isn't a factor in "heat and long term high states of charge". It certainly doesn't invalidate my main point which is that mileage is pretty much a non-factor. He already charges to 80%, and in his case, there's really nothing else he could do that would have any significant affect on degradation.

I was also mainly speaking to the 1st gen batteries like his car seems to have.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

Spacedogb
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:35 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2019
Leaf Number: 411097

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:35 pm
You may have an early build Leaf with the terrible 1st generation battery chemistry. Look on the driver's side door sill for the build month and year. If it is before April of 2013* then it's the old chemistry and you are doing nothing wrong - it's Nissan' s fault. If the build date is later, then heat is the likely culprit. Does the battery temp regularly go above 6 or 7 bars on the temp gauge? Do you quick charge it while hot?

The only good news here is that with an 8 mile commute, you should have enough range even at 80%. I would suggest that you not top off at work if not necessary. Using the climate control timer should be harmless to the battery. Is this a Leaf S with resistance heat only? There are tricks to reduce the heating power consumption.



* There have been one or two April build cars that seem to have the old chemistry. Most do not.
My car was built 06/13. It is a Leaf SL. I will stop topping off at work and start letting the battery run down a bit more.

alozzy
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:20 am

FYI: It's counterintuitive, but you want to keep the A/C turned on when heating in winter, as that's what allows the heat pump to do its job.

In other words, with the A/C turned off, you'll essentially make your SL the equivalent of an S with respect to cabin heating, as only the resistive (PTC) heater will be working.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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LeftieBiker
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:57 am

davewill wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:09 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:53 pm
The 2011-3/2013 cars definitely have 'calendar losses' but the new battery chemistries seem to lose capacity mainly because of heat and long term high states of charge. Still, since most Leafs reside in climates warm enough to cause degradation in Summer, I guess that this will be hard to separate from time passing alone.
I never said time passing alone. I said it was a "function of time and CLIMATE". Which isn't much different from what you said since there's no way that time isn't a factor in "heat and long term high states of charge". It certainly doesn't invalidate my main point which is that mileage is pretty much a non-factor. He already charges to 80%, and in his case, there's really nothing else he could do that would have any significant affect on degradation.

I was also mainly speaking to the 1st gen batteries like his car seems to have.
The only places where time doesn't seem to be a factor is in very cool climates. In some cases there even gen I batteries can last a long time. So no, we don't really disagree much.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Posts: 15297
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:00 pm

alozzy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:20 am
FYI: It's counterintuitive, but you want to keep the A/C turned on when heating in winter, as that's what allows the heat pump to do its job.

In other words, with the A/C turned off, you'll essentially make your SL the equivalent of an S with respect to cabin heating, as only the resistive (PTC) heater will be working.

??? No. If you run both A/C and heat at once, that guarantees that you will have S-like Winter range, because the PTC heater will be forced to provide the heat. The heatpump does NOT need the A/C turned on to provide heat! Just the opposite, in most cases.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:03 pm

I'm going to check the manual then, because my energy use meter in the energy info screen, doubles to well over 3kW for climate control with AC off.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

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