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Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:53 pm
by LeftieBiker
Lothsahn wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:51 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:34 am
With my current '13 Leaf SV, I'd definitely say that the the heater is inferior to that of all ICEVs I've ever owned
Interesting. My 2011 warms up in 3 minutes (far faster than any ICE), and has very adequate heat. I'm comfortable 4 minutes after starting the car.

Especially interesting since you have the liquid-based heater and he has the faster, direct to air unit. Does it get really cold where you live?

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:15 am
by Lothsahn
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:53 pm
Lothsahn wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:51 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:34 am
With my current '13 Leaf SV, I'd definitely say that the the heater is inferior to that of all ICEVs I've ever owned
Interesting. My 2011 warms up in 3 minutes (far faster than any ICE), and has very adequate heat. I'm comfortable 4 minutes after starting the car.

Especially interesting since you have the liquid-based heater and he has the faster, direct to air unit. Does it get really cold where you live?
It's Missouri, so nothing like Canada or anything, but it's usually 32-40F in the winter. Sometimes it can get as cold as 10F.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:14 am
by LeftieBiker
Imagine a heater that uses half the power and heats up twice as fast, and you have the '13+ SV and SL heater (until 2018, when the heatpump was made optional).

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:17 pm
by Lothsahn
I wonder if cwerdna has a blown PTC heater unit in his. It's a common failure and if you have the heatpump, you may not notice. A number of people have reported that issue.

Here's someone just today on Reddit who posted about how their Leaf heats up fast:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/ ... h=f218c772
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:14 am
Imagine a heater that uses half the power and heats up twice as fast, and you have the '13+ SV and SL heater (until 2018, when the heatpump was made optional).
I always use the heater disable switch ( http://raglanelectricbikes.co.nz/store/ ... category=0 ) in "low" mode. I still think the car still heats up fast. I can't imagine how a 2013+ would be...

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:08 pm
by LeftieBiker
This thread needs to be moved to its own topic. Anyway, I had the chance to test the 'Alozzy scenario' this evening. It's a cold (mid thirties F), rainy night with very high humidity, so I ran heat and A/C at the same time, while watching the energy monitor for all systems (which, BTW, is accessible only from the infotainment screen menu, for some reason).

<drum roll>...

They screwed up the climate control display, and it does indeed show a big drop in energy usage when the A/C and Heat are on together. This can't be possible for the reasons I listed above, so some Nissan firmware programmer goofed. I suspect that when both modes are engaged, the energy monitor stops 'seeing' the drain for the PTC. It was showing less than 500 watts total draw for climate control, and that likely isn't possible for resistance heat alone, much less for resistance heat and A/C.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:40 pm
by alozzy
Interesting, thanks for checking that out LeftieBiker. Frustrating, when the energy usage stats can't be relied upon as a basis for trying to maximize range.

Are you certain it's impossible that, when the set point is higher than the ambient temperature, that doesn't in turn trigger the reversing valve on the heat pump and thereby change it from cool mode to heat mode?

I've always assumed that's the way the system worked because it seems like a simple and elegant design.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:10 pm
by LeftieBiker
The whole reason for having separate Heat and A/C buttons is to make the system obey you, unlike the 2011-2012 Leafs, where you got to choose "On" or "Off" and a set temp, and the HVAC made the rest of the decisions, at least about heating.

I found another piece of evidence of the glitch in energy reporting this evening: when the heat is already on and I turn on the A/C for defogging, there is no change at all in the range estimate. It would normally drop by about 2 miles when the A/C is switched on. The car just doesn't seem to realize when both are in use at once.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:24 pm
by alozzy
Interesting find, it's a goofy system! At least there seems to be nothing wrong with my LEAF, which is a relief.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:40 pm
by knightmb
If your heater can't hit 6kw on the energy monitor screen, you have a blown PTC. You'll notice this when your heater doesn't melt the vents a few moments after turning it on like in my 2013 SV :mrgreen: . Mine failed under warranty back in 2016 and replaced. First sign of failure, heater only hits 1.5kw power usage because it's all heat pump. Second sign if partial failure, energy usage max at 3kw, then your PTC is partially blown. Without warranty, it's expensive to fix.

Re: What am I doing wrong? 2013 Leaf 28k 10 bars

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:49 pm
by knightmb
After reading this topic, I don't think you are doing anything wrong. For nearly 7 years I charge mine to 100% daily, QC hundreds of times, L2 thousands of times, drive until battery hits maximum temperature bars and goes turtle mode until it cools down and drive it like I stole it. 60k miles later, still at 10 bars and still my daily commute car, towing car (trailer hitch), etc. By all accounts battery should be dead. Just drive it like a car, I never baby mine and been happy all these years.

Spacedogb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:42 pm
Hello everyone,
I have been lerking around the forum for several months and I purchased a 2013 Leaf from CarMax in May. The car was purchased and lived its life in Northern VA until I purchased it. I got it with 22,000 miles. It had 11 bars upon purchase. I have never quick charged and I always plug when i get home. I charge on 110v and usually activate charge when i get home and only charge to 80%. I have a 8 mile drive to work and usually top back off to 80% while at work on the 110v charger. I used to use the charge timer but i was unable to get enough range in the time allotted. I recently started using the app to activate climate control. Last night it was freezing temps and this morning i got up and lost a capacity bar and I'm down to 10 bars at 28,241miles. Ive been searching and I can't find a definitive answer as to if I'm doing something wrong. Thanks in advance for any response and yes I've searched the forums lol