LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:39 pm

I think that many of us have noticed a significant loss in range when the SOH goes below 90% - I did with my 2013 SV. I've theorized before that it's because when it's dropping before that, we are still increasing our driving efficiency, and largely compensate for the loss. By the time it dips below 90%, though, we have stopped becoming more efficient drivers, and at the same time the loss becomes pronounced enough for us to notice it on longer drives.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cherylrowe
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 26 Dec 2014

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:19 pm

nlspace wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:40 pm
She has at least 2 cells that are lagging all the rest by ~17mV, cells #17 and 80, plus there may be others, but those stick out as easiest to see.

The cells may be defective, or maybe they will balance back up to the rest, but as long as they lag then the average voltage will be pulled down and the range will be affected (as observed).

i would recommend to drive the car down to a really low level, such as 1 bar on the "fuel" gauge, then take another screenshot of the cell voltages. This should show a bigger voltage difference if there is a defective cell. Then charge on L1 or L2 and let it go until it stops on it's own--no timer. This will allow the balancers to do their job for as long as possible. But a defective cell(s) can't be brought back into balance. Good Luck hope you get a new pack if the cells are bad.
I drove the car down to one bar today (displayed 8 miles of range) and then L2 charged without a timer until it completed a full charge. The SOC on Leaf Spy still only shows 92.4%. When I was at 15 miles of range and 3 bars Leaf Spy showed the SOC at 30% and ended at 22.4%.
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15335
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:29 pm

As long as no cells are not in view and low, that's now a well-balanced pack. I suspect that it was what I suggested above about noticing range loss once it's below 90% capacity, possibly combined with a couple of low cells affecting the range a bit.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cherylrowe
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 26 Dec 2014

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:49 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:29 pm
As long as no cells are not in view and low, that's now a well-balanced pack. I suspect that it was what I suggested above about noticing range loss once it's below 90% capacity, possibly combined with a couple of low cells affecting the range a bit.
Any thoughts on why a full charge is still only showing as 92% SOC?

nlspace
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2017

defective cell #17

Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:39 am

Cell #17 is still lagging by 14mV and has not been brought up by balancing. It is causing the overall and average voltage to be held down, and this is why it indicates only 92% SOC instead of something closer to 100%.

My experience with consistently-lagging cells such as this is that they are somehow defective and do not heal themselves even with repeated balancing charges such as you did.

The best case is that it will degrade rapidly such that it is clearly evident to nissan using the Consult Tool that the cell is defective under warranty.

cherylrowe
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 26 Dec 2014

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:50 am

Thanks. The techs didn't find any issues when they tested a couple weeks ago but I'm in a small town where I don't think they know or care too much. I'll keep tracking it and take it back in when I think it's obvious.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:29 pm

Cell #17 is still lagging by 14mV and has not been brought up by balancing. It is causing the overall and average voltage to be held down, and this is why it indicates only 92% SOC instead of something closer to 100%.

14mv isn't generally considered a big difference. Are you sure about this? I'd do a couple of 100% (indicated) charges from a low SOC (and then drive the car immediately afterwards to get the SOC back down) to see if it improves any more.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:22 pm

I am curious to see if the 90% SOH rule holds on our second Leaf, as we are already experienced drivers. My guess is that I will start to feel it below 95% this time. You do get a little more efficient with the tires after the first few K miles. Having tires with 44psi rating helps a few percent as well.

We will see. With our 2013, I got the best runs in my second not first summer. Hopefully that holds up with the Plus this summer as well.

I very curious to see how well these bigger packs hold up. I know thermal MGMT is non trivial, but it doesn’t feel like many of the other manufacturers have had as many issues as some of the Leaf model years (2011-2012 and 2016-2017).
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15335
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: Range loss without capacity loss on new battery

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:28 pm

I am curious to see if the 90% SOH rule holds on our second Leaf, as we are already experienced drivers. My guess is that I will start to feel it below 95% this time.
I agree. The 90% "rule" (more like a guesstimate) applies mainly to EV newbies. When you've lost 1/20th of your range, it will become apparent in at least some situations.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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