Megunticook
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:12 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2019
Leaf Number: 309819

First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:17 am

This is my first winter with the Leaf. I read that cold weather reduces range, especially if you run the heat. Yesterday I decided to try a 104-mile trip. It was fairly cold, dropping from 20 to 10 degrees during the time I was travelling.

The battery was fully topped off when I left (this is the 40kWh). I was in Eco mode. I had to run a few quick errands, maybe 6 miles total, before actually hitting the road. Much to my surprise, after 53 miles we were down to 50% (mostly on 2-lane state highway at 60mph). I stopped and quick-charged up to 75%, then continued on the next leg of the trip. This was also 2-lane state roads, though not 60mph all the way, some stretches were too curvy or bumpy. In any case, when I was approaching my destination I was down to 8% and the battery warning light came on.

Although I probably could have made it, I decided to play it safe and stop at a nearby charger (which didn't work! but fortunately there was another a few blocks away). That was a little nerve racking.

Really surprised me how little range I had. Ran the heat intermittently to defrost the window, but it was on 68 degrees with low fan, and probably was off 75% of the time. There were three people in the car and a moderate amount of gear.

I did realize at one point that I had been driving for about 20 miles at 60mph in B mode. Normally I just use that for deceleration. What's the effect of driving in B mode at highway speed? Seems like not a good idea, but I see from some Google searches that some Leaf owners do this deliberately.

It was a good experiment and teaches me to be cautious with range in winter. Definitely not a good feeling to have that low battery light go on and start wondering if you're going to stall out somewhere. Fortunately it all worked out fine.

SueC56
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Delivery Date: 16 May 2019
Location: Cedar Falls IA

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:00 am

My 2016 SL (30 kwh) LEAF shows about a 1:1 ratio between miles and charge percentage in the winter. I would have expected more miles for your 50% of charge used. In my mind the heater must be the reason you were 1:1 in a car with a larger battery. My car estimates about 121 miles in summer and about 98 in winter (this is my first year with the car). But running the heater takes that down several miles of range. I estimate overall about a 35%+ loss of range. So, yes, estimate cautiously in winter.

Sue C
Iowa
Sue C
2016 Nissan LEAF SL, Coulee Red
Purchased 8/3/2019 with 9500 miles
As of 7/22/2020 it has 12k miles

LeftieBiker
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Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:18 pm

The low temperatures explain the high heater drain and poor range. Between the heat pump (if present) not being much use at those temps, lower battery efficiency, and the tires being stiffer, range really takes a huge hit below about 30F, and especially below about 20F. The air resistance is even higher in the cold. Inflate your tires to 40psi for Winter driving, use 'partial recirculate' mode, and slow down as much as possible without obstructing traffic. If you have a 240 volt charging station, preheat the car before leaving.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14977
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:40 pm

Trim?

Sounds likely wind was a factor. What was your average miles/kwh? Or did you reset it before the trip? With that many in the car, defrost will be an issue as well.

The real issue is relying on the dash to give you accurate range info because... well, it doesn't. It wants you to stop and charge well before you really need to. Now, if on the road, not that much of a big deal but if it has you thinking you have to make a stop a few miles from home to avoid walking, it then becomes a major inconvenience and stressful over a likely non issue.

When I run heat, I notice that even a little is enough to break the chill so I always run heat/defrost at 61º. I found it made little difference in initial power usage but the power ramp down happened much quicker and I saw no real difference in my comfort level or cold tolerance.

As far as B mode;

B mode dampens the motor response to pedal movement and increases regen levels. Its a benefit if you are at a relatively stable power level as it helps smooth out the power spikes you would see in D mode.

It is a detriment if you are a "go/no go" type of driver. What I mean by that is people who constantly accelerate and brake in an ICEer. Now in an EV that would mean seeing very high levels of regen frequently (more than 2 pips or so) So steady foot means B mode will be best for range.

Jittery foot means D mode is better. In the grand scheme of things; your goal for best efficiency is continuous power levels or at least a power level with the smallest variance you can muster. B mode makes this easier to achieve. Your aim is to drive between zero and 2-3 power segments w/o any regen or braking (obviously) Now achieving that goal is all but impossible in most cases but the closer you get to that, the further you will go.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:53 pm

I will second what Dave said. Constant power (not speed) is the key. You can significantly outperform the sticker range (in summer) and come close in winter with:
1. Tires at 44psi (a bit lower if on ecopias)
2. Constant power minimizing regen in highway
3. Minimal heat beyond seat and steering wheel heaters.
4. Keeping it under 65 knots (I say knots only partially satirically, because speed relative to the wind is more important than speed relative to the ground)
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

Triggerhappy007
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:01 pm

Megunticook wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:17 am
In any case, when I was approaching my destination I was down to 8% and the battery warning light came on.

Although I probably could have made it, I decided to play it safe and stop at a nearby charger (which didn't work! but fortunately there was another a few blocks away). That was a little nerve racking.
On the 40 kWh Leafs, when it says 8%, the actual SoC is probably 18%. If you don't have Leafspy and a dongle, you should get it.
2019 Leaf SL ProPilot
2020 Pacifica Hybrid Limited AST

Megunticook
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:12 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2019
Leaf Number: 309819

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:10 am

Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:01 pm
On the 40 kWh Leafs, when it says 8%, the actual SoC is probably 18%. If you don't have Leafspy and a dongle, you should get it.
I have LeafSpy and a dongle but haven't used it to check SoC yet. Sounds like I probably could've made it to my destination, which was maybe 5 miles up the road when the LBWL came on. But that was a first for me and I didn't want to take a chance, not knowing how much range I had left. Had a couple kids in the car, it was a frigid night, a breakdown on the side of the road not a good scenario.

But I will try using LeafSpy if I ever find myself in that spot again (hopefully not but you never know).

If you do run the batteries down all the way, is the only solution to get towed to a charger? Or are there portable roadside chargers?

Interestingly, on the way home yesterday my range was much better. But it was 20-30 degrees warmer.

css28
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Aug 2019
Location: Bloomfield Twp, Michigan

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:52 am

Megunticook wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:10 am
...If you do run the batteries down all the way, is the only solution to get towed to a charger? Or are there portable roadside chargers?
I think I've seen a picture of such apparatus, but the current reality is that it's bound to be quicker and cheaper for them to pull your vehicle onto a roll-back truck and transport it home or to a charging station.
- Chris
----------
2017 SV, purchased 8/10/19, Coulis red

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:13 am

Megunticook wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:10 am
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:01 pm
On the 40 kWh Leafs, when it says 8%, the actual SoC is probably 18%. If you don't have Leafspy and a dongle, you should get it.
I have LeafSpy and a dongle but haven't used it to check SoC yet. Sounds like I probably could've made it to my destination, which was maybe 5 miles up the road when the LBWL came on. But that was a first for me and I didn't want to take a chance, not knowing how much range I had left. Had a couple kids in the car, it was a frigid night, a breakdown on the side of the road not a good scenario.

But I will try using LeafSpy if I ever find myself in that spot again (hopefully not but you never know).

If you do run the batteries down all the way, is the only solution to get towed to a charger? Or are there portable roadside chargers?

Interestingly, on the way home yesterday my range was much better. But it was 20-30 degrees warmer.
All your questions would be mute if you were using LEAF Spy. This is one of the biggest reasons I got it in the first place. It allows you to use all your range with confidence.

As far as running the batteries all the way down? Don't do it. LEAF Spy will allow you to adjust your driving well before your pack is low if you are in that situation.

But the situation you described above isn't one of them. You had more than enough to make it home. On my 24 and 30 kwh LEAFs, I was getting home with less than 10 GID (which is at least 10 miles beyond your situation) at least 1-4 times a week FOR YEARS. LEAF Spy is the only way I could get away with it.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
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Re: First cold weather "near-fail" experience

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:37 pm

All your questions would be mute if you were using Leaf Spy.
I believe the word you are looking for is "moot."

Grounded For Life (2001) s02e03 Episode Script
204 - Don't Let Me Download


So, in conclusion, we should never take any of our 4 freedoms for granite.
Thank you.
Lily, did you say, "for granite"? Yes, for granite.
As in, "don't take anything for granite.
" Don't assume something's set in stone when it might not be.
I believe the expression is "for granted.
" Class? Yeah.
Heh.
Well, Sister Helen, my report is over, so your point is mute.
I believe, Lily, my point is "moot.
" Moot! Who says "moot"? Uh-huh.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.u ... ode=s02e03
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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