SageBrush
Posts: 5260
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:32 am

This graph gets updated as the two authors test more cars but it is pretty representative of circa summer 2020 EVs available. I like their choice of 70 mph. Keep in mind that they choose moderate weather days to drive. They often use some cabin cooling but nothing extreme and so far as I know, no cold winter driving.

They add a nice touch to the graph by adding the EPA range to the left of each car.
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/WO87r ... e-test.jpg

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

smkettner
Posts: 7501
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:29 pm

This number should be part of the EPA or some independent live road test and included on the window sticker.
Lots of cars still need to be added to the graph.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:22 pm

smkettner wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:29 pm
This number should be part of the EPA or some independent live road test and included on the window sticker.
Lots of cars still need to be added to the graph.
That and, even more importantly, a Winter range number for driving at, say, 20F with heat.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:12 pm

Not sure I agree...

It's simply more ammunition for ICE advocates to argue that EVs are not up to the task, ignoring the fact that ICE vehicles likewise go roughly 25% less far on a tank of gas, when traveling at 70 mph rather than 55 mph.

While a range chart, at various speeds and conditions, is useful information, I think that standardized range tests should be based on as few variables as possible (i.e. no wind, flat terrain, only the driver with no passengers or cargo, 55 mph average speed, 70F temp with no precip, etc). Controlling as many variables as possible, when conducting such tests, is the only fair means of comparison.

As far as winter driving is concerned, EV advocates need to point out the fact that ICE vehicles fair better in cold weather because internal combustion engines are better heaters that they are a means of generating useful work. An ICE is grossly inefficient, which often seems to be overlooked...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
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Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm

I don't think that it's fair to leave it to "EV advocates" to educate everyone considering an EV. That might work in the early adoption phase, but at this point we need for them to see it on a sticker on the car, as the dealership will either not know the info, or will lie about it. A section of the EPA sticker with, say, six clear numbers would work: city range at 70F and at 20F, highway range at 55MPH and 70MPH, both at 70F and at 20F. If they have to use just one number for range, it should be at 60MPH with the heat on at 40F. That would certainly speed the adoption of heat pumps more widely...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:26 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm
A section of the EPA sticker with, say, six clear numbers would work: city range at 70F and at 20F, highway range at 55MPH and 70MPH, both at 70F and at 20F. If they have to use just one number for range, it should be at 60MPH with the heat on at 40F. That would certainly speed the adoption of heat pumps more widely...
There's still a need for educating the prospective EV buyer, regardless of the EPA range number(s). Many of the same range limiting factors affect ICE cars, but because of the extensive fueling infrastructure, owners don't give them any thought - one just stops at the next gas station...

We're still very much in the early adopter phase, thanks to poor charging infrastructure and charging times. Nobody will talk about EV range anymore, once DC fast charging is ubiquitous and truly "fast" :-)

Imagine if EV batteries charged in under 5 minutes and there were as many EV charging locations as there are gas stations. How big of a battery would people "need" then?
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:27 pm

We're still very much in the early adopter phase, thanks to poor charging infrastructure and charging times.

We disagree on that. I'll bet that you've never plugged your scooter surreptitiously into a gas station soda cooler outlet just to make it home, or sat shivering with a blanket over you as your car charged , slowly, on L-2 in frigid weather. I'm not sure of the name for this stage, but it's intermediate, not early.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:57 pm

Image
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
Posts: 5260
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:10 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm
I don't think that it's fair to leave it to "EV advocates" to educate everyone considering an EV. That might work in the early adoption phase, but at this point we need for them to see it on a sticker on the car, as the dealership will either not know the info, or will lie about it. A section of the EPA sticker with, say, six clear numbers would work: city range at 70F and at 20F, highway range at 55MPH and 70MPH, both at 70F and at 20F. If they have to use just one number for range, it should be at 60MPH with the heat on at 40F. That would certainly speed the adoption of heat pumps more widely...
If that is *all* you want, just advocate for mandatory 5 cycle EPA testing and reporting.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 5260
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 70 mph Range Tests: InsideEVs

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:14 pm

alozzy wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Not sure I agree...

It's simply more ammunition for ICE advocates to argue that EVs are not up to the task, ignoring the fact that ICE vehicles likewise go roughly 25% less far on a tank of gas, when traveling at 70 mph rather than 55 mph.
Hiding consumer information does not sound like a good idea to me for many reasons, but one of them would be consumer backlash. It would make sense though to operate the heating in an efficient way, meaning cabin heating offset with heat/wheel heating as available.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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