2012 Leaf 83% SOH and 55km range?

Can someone tell me if these numbers add up?

I just picked up a 2012 Leaf after looking at the battery health with the LeafSpy App. The car has 53000 km, 83% SOH, 11 bars, and 2921 L1/L2 charges. Battery cells reported a max of 21 mV difference.

I am not really sure what to expect for mileage on a charge out of this battery, but here is my first test conditions:
-6 Celsius outside, range estimate was 82km (100% charge). Heated seats and steering wheel off, temperature set to 20C. Drove conservatively in city, a lot of 60-70 kph and residential. Low battery light came on at 55km - would that be in the range of normal for this battery condition?

The cabin heater used in 2011 and 2012 models was a small electric water heater that takes a lot of energy. It is much more efficient to use the steering wheel and seat heaters with cabin heat set lower. Also, there is a significant amount of energy remaining in the battery when the first low battery warning occurs. Therefore, I am not surprised that the low battery warning happened at 55 km.

55 kms after 80% discharge equates to a total estimated range of 55/.8 = 69 km.

I guess I should be more grateful for the hybrid heater in my 2013 SV, as I still eek out better than 100km of range during mild Vancouver winters. I haven't checked the SOH of my pack in awhile, but I suspect it's very close to yours.

FWIW, some people have installed a kerosene heater in the trunk of their 2011/2012, which would definitely offset some of the range loss during colder winter months.

OP:
Sounds like you have LeafSpy -- Good !

The app shows energy consumption for heating/cooling. Say it runs at 5000 watts and you travel 50 km in an hour. That works out to 100 Wh/km heating penalty. So yes, your overall range results make sense.

What to do ?
1. Drive faster roads
2. Use less cabin heating (more seat and wheel heating)
3. Pre-heat the car

As I mentioned before, people have successfully installed diesel heaters in the trunk of their 2011/2012, similar to this one:

https://ebay.to/3to6Fqx

See this post for details:

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26390

This thread post in particular:

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26390&start=30#p544601

Another penalty with the heater in an '11/'12 Leaf is factory there is no way to turn off the heater when the climate control is ON, it always keeps the water loop warm :x so no way to say run the fan to clear the windshield without having that energy hog water heater turn on! Many of us '11/'12 Leaf owners have purchased and somewhat easily installed a switch from an MNL member Thor(for pennies really) that lets us run our fan but not bring on the heat. The newer Leafs are more logically designed where you can run the fan but not run the heater.
Also note while preheating while plugged in helps, you'll still lose several percentage when doing this as the heater draws more than the puny charger(3.3kw) will replenish the battery

This should help the OP:

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297&p=482154

LeftieBiker said:

This should help the OP:

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297&p=482154

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I like your font Leftie, hadn't looked at your T&T thread lately and I'm impressed

I'm still of the opinion that if you need to install a fossil fuel heater in a full EV, then you are missing something. You should reconsider the EV you have and should maybe get a car with a better heater and/or larger battery (e.g., an SV or SL with hybrid heat pump). Or possibly a plug-in hybrid.

jlv said:

I'm still of the opinion that if you need to install a fossil fuel heater in a full EV, then you are missing something. You should reconsider the EV you have and should maybe get a car with a better heater and/or larger battery (e.g., an SV or SL with hybrid heat pump). Or possibly a plug-in hybrid.

Click to expand...

I disagree. Although it seems the idea of adding a diesel heater is abhorrent, I'd rather that than people send these older LEAFs to the junkyard prematurely. Adding a diesel heater could stretch out a Leaf's useful life for a couple of years or more...

I sort of agree. While I find the idea of a diesel heater abhorrent as well,as long as the emissions per mile are lower than an ICE vehicle's, it makes sense. Personally, I'd go with a larger, deep cycle 12 volt battery, an inverter wired to it, and several 200 watt ceramic heaters placed in the car. You'd be able to heat anything from just the driver's feet, to all four footwells in the car, without a substantial range penalty.

jlv said:

Or possibly a plug-in hybrid.

Click to expand...

During my year of PHEV* ownership my car was a fuel efficiency champ in the winter because I matched ICE use with cabin heating. Unfortunately though, that takes some thought, some planning, and a little sacrifice so it is a non-starter for the American public at large.


*
Toyota Prime
5.2 usable kWh per charge
52 mpg combined MPG ICE only by EPA
Use:
Southwest Colorado
90 mile commute 2-3 times a week
400 mile one way drive 4 - 8 times a month
One year, 21k miles: 90 MPG, ~ 1000 kWh

alozzy said:

jlv said:

I'm still of the opinion that if you need to install a fossil fuel heater in a full EV, then you are missing something. You should reconsider the EV you have and should maybe get a car with a better heater and/or larger battery (e.g., an SV or SL with hybrid heat pump). Or possibly a plug-in hybrid.

Click to expand...

I disagree. Although it seems the idea of adding a diesel heater is abhorrent, I'd rather that than people send these older LEAFs to the junkyard prematurely. Adding a diesel heater could stretch out a Leaf's useful life for a couple of years or more...

Click to expand...

+1
It's kind of on the same line as our next vehicle(ordered but a 2-3yr waiting list ) a Toyota RAV4 Prime(PHEV). Hopefully, we'll be able to do 95% of our driving EV(~40 miles summer range) but we'll still be able to drive it across the country or even across the state.
In a state like MN where the cold and snow can make a 70 mile Leaf(or range EV) 40 miles if I regularly had a 60-mile commute something like a diesel heater would make the difference between say using the Leaf and having to run an ICE only vehicle, or purchasing a more expensive longer range EV. Plus we wouldn't need the heater all the time, just in the coldest winter days. The reason we're going with a PHEV, and one with a somewhat decent EV range, is we'll be able to get rid of our ICE-only vehicle, saving insurance, tabs and maintenance on a vehicle.

LeftieBiker said:

I sort of agree. While I find the idea of a diesel heater abhorrent as well,as long as the emissions per mile are lower than an ICE vehicle's, it makes sense. Personally, I'd go with a larger, deep cycle 12 volt battery, an inverter wired to it, and several 200 watt ceramic heaters placed in the car.

Click to expand...

I'd find it difficult to choose between your solution and kerosene. I just don't know if I prefer death by asphyxiation, electrocution, or fire.

You should try all three, see which works best for you :lol:

SageBrush said:

LeftieBiker said:

I sort of agree. While I find the idea of a diesel heater abhorrent as well,as long as the emissions per mile are lower than an ICE vehicle's, it makes sense. Personally, I'd go with a larger, deep cycle 12 volt battery, an inverter wired to it, and several 200 watt ceramic heaters placed in the car.

Click to expand...

I'd find it difficult to choose between your solution and kerosene. I just don't know if I prefer death by asphyxiation, electrocution, or fire.

Click to expand...

If you avoid using AC outlets and short extension cords, then I think you should probably avoid my solution, too. I actually tested this system in the PIP, a few years ago. It worked. The only difference was that I used a separate storage battery for the prototype. Search "Heater in a Box" and you'll see it. It essentially provides warm footwells instead of a warmer cabin.

jjeff said:

Hopefully, we'll be able to do 95% of our driving EV(~40 miles summer range) but we'll still be able to drive it across the country or even across the state. The reason we're going with a PHEV, and one with a somewhat decent EV range, is we'll be able to get rid of our ICE-only vehicle, saving insurance, tabs and maintenance on a vehicle.

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Smart choice, and perfect use of the car. Too bad so few PHEV buyers act as you intend. Toyota in particular does magic with efficiency. The RAV4 is no Prius but it will still likely exceed your expectations for efficiency. I used to drive our Toyota Prime 90 miles each work commute day. 5.2 kWh battery usage enabled ~ 110 MPG (best 125 MPG !), or about 1/2 the fossil fuel use of an economical Prius hybrid. It took months before my skeptical wife believed that the puny battery could have such an outsized effect on fossil fuel economy.

By the time you can buy the PHEV though, you may find yourself reconsidering. Tesla BEVs have made outstanding progress in mitigating the winter range penalty. Even if you do not buy a Tesla, other EV manufacturers will eventually adopt the Tesla innovations.

One of the things I liked about the Prime PHEVs is both the Prius and RAV4 have the heat pump heater, something I'd think more PHEVs would have(because they typically have smaller batteries and could really benefit from the efficiency) but sadly few do. Believe it or not, another PHEV we were looking at was the Prius but both of us wanted a higher vehicle for getting in and out of as well as something with a little more ground clearance than the Prius has, I also would have really preferred a larger battery in the Prius but it sounds like you got plenty out of yours. It's going to be hard not getting 50+ MPG on road trips as our current old '07 regular Prius does and the Prius Prime tops that even more but I'm hoping to get 40 out of the Prime RAV4 which still isn't too bad. Still plan on keeping our '13S Leaf for a backup and around town but our mainstay will probably be the RAV4 Prime, the Prius will go as well as our 8 bar '12SL Leaf, and I should probably sell our '04 Scion Xb which is the least used of our vehicles, again more for backup.

jjeff said:

One of the things I liked about the Prime PHEVs is both the Prius and RAV4 have the heat pump heater, something I'd think more PHEVs would have(because they typically have smaller batteries and could really benefit from the efficiency) but sadly few do. Believe it or not, another PHEV we were looking at was the Prius but both of us wanted a higher vehicle for getting in and out of as well as something with a little more ground clearance than the Prius has, I also would have really preferred a larger battery in the Prius but it sounds like you got plenty out of yours. It's going to be hard not getting 50+ MPG on road trips as our current old '07 regular Prius does and the Prius Prime tops that even more but I'm hoping to get 40 out of the Prime RAV4 which still isn't too bad. Still plan on keeping our '13S Leaf for a backup and around town but our mainstay will probably be the RAV4 Prime, the Prius will go as well as our 8 bar '12SL Leaf, and I should probably sell our '04 Scion Xb which is the least used of our vehicles, again more for backup.

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Once our Tesla arrived in 2018 we were a 3 car family for two people and pretty much covered by one vehicle. But my wife wanted a second car so either the LEAF or the Prime was on the block. I was more in favor of keeping the LEAF and my wife wanted to keep the Prime for the reasons you mentioned. We ended up putting both up for sale and the Prime sold first.

Part of my reticence in keeping the Prime was the experience of having to charge the car daily, and a worry that my wife would find it too easy to fall back into the ICE trap of fossil fuel convenience. Not that she likes going to petrol stations -- far from it -- but plugging in every day is a habit best learned when the alternative is a discharged battery.

It has worked out well for us. My wife now has excellent home charging habits without any drama, and she refuses to even consider owning a car with an ICE. It took a small leap of faith on her part to become ICE free but her learning experience was trivial in the end.

If we lived in MN and it was two years ago I would have kept the Prime, hands down. A year or two from now ... no.