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evnow
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Leaf Miles / KWh is Wrong Or Usable bat. cap. is not 24 KWh

Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:46 pm

It has been two months since I got Leaf - and after a modest 1,000 miles on the odometere I propose that both Leaf & Carwings Miles / KWh are wrong.

We have has these assumptions in this forum for a while now
- Carwings m/kwh numbers are too optimistic and wrong (acknowledged by Leaf CS)
- Leaf has 24 kwh usable battery
- Leaf dashboard m/kwh is correct (somewhat unstated)

I've been collecting stats for almost 2 months now. We have also had many others posting their observations and stats. From all these we now have
- M/KWh reported by Leaf & by Carwings
- Miles traveled reported by Leaf & by Carwings
- KWh consumption at the wall reported by Blink/TED/kill-a-watt

The above three need to agree with each other and with the assumptions stated above. They don't.

- We already know that Carings m/kwh is too high. So, let us ignore that.
- We already know that Leaf reported Miles traveled and what Carwings reports are slightly different. Possibly due to GPS being less accurate. Let us ignore this difference.
- Leaf reports m/kwh in two ways. On the dash and on the central console. They are slightly different. The difference is explained by the difference in the mileage reported by Leaf dash & carwings. We can ignore this difference.

But we can't ignore the following.
- Reports of miles traveled divided by m/kwh reported when the battery is almost out (Turtle or near turtle), only give about 20 or 21 KWh.
- People are consistantly reporting above 4 m/kwh. If our assumption of 24 kwh battery is correct, we should be hearing a lot of above 100 miles of range achieved. But, we have almost never heard of anyone getting above 100 miles of range on one charge, though a lot of people have hit turtle and with better than 4 m/kwh efficiency reported by Leaf.

This can only mean one of 2 things.
i. Leaf battery's usable capacity is no more than 21 KWh OR
ii. M/KWh reported by Leaf is also bloated.

One interested aspect was brought up by bowthom.
- Take electricity consumption reported by Carwings (motor + accessories)
- Look at the electricity consumption reported by Blink
- They are in fine agreement (within about 90%, as one would expect)
- Using this electricity consumption and the reported miles traveled, I seem to get more reasonable m/kwh, mainly below 4 as I expect in this cold weather and above 4 a couple of times. 10% to 20% less than what Leaf reports.

What this means is that M/KWh reported by Leaf is also bloated (ii above). There is still a possibililty that i above is correct i.e. Leaf battery's usable capacity is no more than 21 KWh.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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nader
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Pre or post ECU update numbers?

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evnow
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:57 pm

nader wrote:Pre or post ECU update numbers?
Is there a difference ?

We have only heard about estimated range differences - not m/kwh calculation.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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DeaneG
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:20 pm

What sort of mi/AC-KWh figures are you seeing using Blink/Kill-a-Watt readings and the car's odometer?
I almost don't care what the car reports (though nice if it was accurate) unless it's measured in what I pay for: AC kilowatt-hours.
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evnow
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:30 pm

DeaneG wrote:What sort of mi/AC-KWh figures are you seeing using Blink/Kill-a-Watt readings and the car's odometer?
Between 3 & 4.2.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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Stoaty
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:52 pm

Disappointing and kind of basic to get these numbers right. Perhaps marketing overruled engineering and plumped the numbers a bit. The third generation Prius is 5-7% high on the MPG readings (both reported on Priuschat and proven by my brother who kept meticulous notes to the thousandth of a gallon of all the fuel used for 10,000 miles). Also, if they have known about this carwings bug for quite some time, why hasn't it been fixed? What's the point of having these figure if they are wrong???

On the other hand, if the Leaf doesn't really have 24 KWH usable, then Nissan is guilty of false advertising. Any way you slice it, not a class act.
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garygid
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:02 pm

The Energy Screen on the center console (Nav screen) shows the average miles/kWh since the last "Reset" (a touch button on that same screen).

The dash-cluster can show an average miles/kWh, but it does not seem to change much, and does NOT match the value shown on the Energy screen. Watch both and Reset the one on the Energy Screen.

What resets the one in the instrument cluster?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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LEAFer
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:12 pm

garygid wrote:What resets the one in the instrument cluster?
The buttons to the left of the steering wheel on the dashboard.
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Boomer23
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:24 pm

LEAFer wrote:
garygid wrote:What resets the one in the instrument cluster?
The buttons to the left of the steering wheel on the dashboard.
Specifically, the upper right of the four buttons is the reset for the various center dash displays.
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planet4ever
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Re: Miles / KWh : Both Leaf & Carwings are wrong Or ....

Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:13 am

I've suggested a couple of times in other threads, with no response, that miles/kWh on the Energy screen may be based on plus and minus energy flow through the motor rather than energy flow in and out of the battery. It seems to me to be a logical thing to do as it would then be stating the efficiency of the power train without being masked by aux uses such as heater, A/C, or lights. It would also help explain the discrepancies evnow has pointed out.

Ray

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