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DeaneG
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Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:49 pm

I've noticed some pretty hair-raising behavior of my range display lately, after getting the April software update and adding my carpool lane stickers (higher freeway speeds).

Here's the scenario:

1) Charge to 80% at home. Range indicator says "77 miles".
2) Freeway 12 miles slightly downhill to airport. Range indicator says "67 miles", pretty good, a 10 mile indicated decrease for a 12 mile trip.
3) Freeway 12 miles slightly uphill back home. Range indicator says "26 miles", an indicated decrease of 41 miles for a 12 mile trip.

I was driving 70-75 mph each way, not much wind.

Has anyone managed worse than this?

My hope is to collect some more worst case range data points on this thread rather than suggestions to slow down ;)
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Randy
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:52 pm

75mph is killer on the range...Try it for one day at 55 or 60mph and see what the difference is....

The 100 mile range that is talked about for the Leaf (using the LA4 cycle) is mostly city street-type driving with a pretty short burst for a few seconds to 55 mph.

Have you had the software upgrade done?

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DeaneG
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:55 pm

DeaneG wrote:...after getting the April software update...My hope is to collect some more worst case range data points on this thread rather than suggestions to slow down..
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TomT
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:00 pm

Your numbers seem inline with what I saw both before and after the update: I live at the top of a hill and saw similar numbers both before and after the update. That wild behavior is simply the result of it using the last 5 miles or so to compute your range remaining on the assumption that your driving habits will remain that way for the rest of the life of the vehicle (grin)! Thus, uphill numbers are very different that downhill numbers.

DeaneG wrote:I've noticed some pretty hair-raising behavior of my range display lately, after getting the April software update and adding my carpool lane stickers (higher freeway speeds).
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evnow
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:32 pm

DeaneG wrote:My hope is to collect some more worst case range data points on this thread rather than suggestions to slow down ;)
Your Range = 21 * Miles/Kwh (100% charge).

You should reset your m/kwh for the return trip if you want range you are getting for that segment.
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SparkyEV
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:00 pm

DeaneG wrote:2) Freeway 12 miles slightly downhill to airport. Range indicator says "67 miles", pretty good, a 10 mile indicated decrease for a 12 mile trip.
3) Freeway 12 miles slightly uphill back home. Range indicator says "26 miles", an indicated decrease of 41 miles for a 12 mile trip.
I don't have my Leaf yet, but that doesn't sound completely unreasonable to me. It was basically saying that you could have gone 67 more miles of downhill at that speed, and 26 more miles at that speed going uphill. Based on your SOC readings and rate of change, would those predictions have turned out to be in the ballpark?

The range indicator can only be accurate if you are driving at a constant rate of speed on a flat (or constant grade) surface. Given that we rarely actually drive that way, it will be off. However, if you *have* been driving under fairly constant conditions for the last 5 miles (or whatever the moving average window is), it seems like it can be a useful predictor of the future assuming nothing changes.
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:09 pm

Yeah, the range meter gets really scary at the end of an uphill drive. I took a 50 mile round trip with half going uphill when I only had just over 50 miles of range left. By the time I got to the top (25 miles) it said I only had 13 miles left. But, I wasn't worried. On the way down, I actually ended up with 15 miles left at the end of the trip. More than it said I had at the start of the downhill portion. Don't let hills spook you if you know it's round trip and you were good before you started up the hill. Now, if you're only going uphill and not coming back down before the halfway point, yes - you could get into trouble easily...

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GaslessInSeattle
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:23 pm

DeaneG wrote:...
My hope is to collect some more worst case range data points on this thread rather than suggestions to slow down ;)
I've seen some pretty amazing fluctuations, nothing too surprising since being reminded of the effects of elevation and exponential wind drag with added speed.

If you took an ICE vehicle and were given the miles per fluid ounce of a 3 gallon tank and concerned yourself with the fluctuations in consumption based on the shifting physics of elevation and speed, in 5-10 mile samplings, you'd probably be horrified by how much it changes, especially if you had to make it back to your garage to refuel. Expecting to be able to ignore drag with such a small margin of reserve simply reflects all the years we've been driving around vehicles with relatively large fuel tanks that have allowed us to ignore our waste.

These laws of physics are not unique to the Leaf, more that we have an opportunity to take a microscope to them and that we are early adapters, motivated to pay attention by a small fuel tank and sparse filling stations.

It would be helpful if the range estimate could consider cumulative changes in elevation, weather and so forth for a round trip, before even beginning the return leg of the trip and even be able to factor the results from the last time the trip was made... in time perhaps.

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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:09 pm

Going back home he may have had a headwind, further killing the range.

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DeaneG
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Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:26 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:If you took an ICE vehicle and were given the miles per fluid ounce of a 3 gallon tank and concerned yourself with the fluctuations in consumption based on the shifting physics of elevation and speed, in 5-10 mile samplings, you'd probably be horrified by how much it changes, especially if you had to make it back to your garage to refuel.
A very good point - with a battery large enough for say two roundtrip commutes, and a more-damped range estimate (to avoid predictions based on half a roundtrip), much of the issue would be moot.
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