SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:20 pm

The mileage estimator is a random number generator. You can't use it, and saying that you "have 26 miles remaining" is meaningless. The bars are more useful.

Your experience appears typical and expected. At 60-65 MPH the range is about 80 miles. You're only charging to 80%. The difference between going 60 MPH and 75 MPH could easily be 75 wh/mile, meaning you might only get 70% of the 65 miles you started with. Run the numbers and you get 80 miles X .8 charging penalty X .7 speeding penalty = 45 miles. 45 miles - 24 miles = 21 miles.

tps
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:40 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 18044
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:32 pm

My first drive in the NYC Hertz LEAF was uphill to one of the highest spots in the immediate area, the New Jersey pallisades. The trip out was 21 miles, range indication went from 96 to 50. The downhill return trip was 26 miles, range went from 50 to 47 miles. So I drove a total of 47 miles according to the odometer, while the range indicator dropped 49 miles.

If I can end up renting the Hertz LEAF for a couple days to bring it to my home north of Philadelphia, I will go 77 miles each way, with about a 300 foot climb on the way home. I think the major changes in elevation along the route are the Holland Tunnel betweem NYC and NJ and hills on either side of the Scudder Falls bridge across the Deleware River from NY to PA. I'm thinking that if I drive US 1 and keep it in ECO at 55 mph, this trip should work OK. Not too many charging opportunities along the route, but there is an L1 on the Chargepoint network at the Ewing Element hotel about 19 miles from my house. I would think that I would probably be wise to pull in and pick up a few miles if I have less than 25 miles indicated range at that point. If I've got 30 or more, I would think the last 19 would be no problem...

mbutter
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:04 am
Delivery Date: 11 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1369

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:50 pm

I want the capability to blank out the erratic mileage display (or at least replace the mileage estimate with a 'percentage' of charge remaining). Otherwise, the number of bars seems to be a reliable and consistent metric.

On my 'old-fashioned' combustible engine vehicles, there is no mileage indicator on my fuel gauge, and those gauges have served me well for many years.
2011 Nissan SL, Ocean Blue, w/(useless??) DC port
Powered by: 3KW solar PV, and Austin 'GreenChoice' Energy (West Texas Wind)
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Other cars: 08 Tacoma

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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:26 pm

SanDust wrote:The mileage estimator is a random number generator.
Well, it predicts depending on how you have been driving. If you change the way you have been driving (like going from 30 mph city roads to 70 mph highway) obviously the est range won't be correct.

This is what I wrote in another forum ...
All auto makers have a simulation software that can tell you the watts/mile - given the speed. All that the software needs to figure out is the speed and likely speed variations. Then take elevation changes into account. The speed can be guessed using past history, speed limits and the traffic conditions. Given a destination, the software can figure out all this.

BTW, one of the things people crib about Leaf is this. It shows, let us say, 70 miles of range. Then, the person drives for 20 miles and now it shows 40 miles of range. The person somehow feels "cheated" !

One option would be to show the expected range - along with the speed used to calculate that range. If the driver drives faster, he should expect lower range.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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cdub
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: La Crescenta, CA

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:58 pm

mbutter wrote:I want the capability to blank out the erratic mileage display (or at least replace the mileage estimate with a 'percentage' of charge remaining). Otherwise, the number of bars seems to be a reliable and consistent metric.

On my 'old-fashioned' combustible engine vehicles, there is no mileage indicator on my fuel gauge, and those gauges have served me well for many years.
+10000

It's nice to know the range when you want it. But it really freaks you out at first going uphill. :)
La Crescenta, CA
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Ordered: 10/16 (Sept. order)
Delivered: 6/2 (4-22er)

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tps
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:40 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 18044
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:19 pm

mbutter wrote:On my 'old-fashioned' combustible engine vehicles, there is no mileage indicator on my fuel gauge, and those gauges have served me well for many years.
My Chevy Malibu has a "fuel range" indicator, and it doesn't seem to be any more accurate that the LEAF's estimated range indicator. The main difference is that the Malibu has about 300 miles range per tank given my normal route and style, the LEAF will have substantially less.

GroundLoop
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:14 am

evnow wrote: Well, it predicts depending on how you have been driving. If you change the way you have been driving (like going from 30 mph city roads to 70 mph highway) obviously the est range won't be correct.
I'm not finding it to be even close in that regard.

For example, for three days I did mostly freeway driving, at ~70mph. My range was around 65miles, as expected.

On the fourth day, after a full charge, I can STILL get into the car and see a predicted range of 80 to 90 miles. This is totally bogus. It does not reflect the way I've been driving. I would expect it to predict 65 miles of range, or stick to some reference point that is consistently off. Instead, it seems to have some kind of built-in "optimism" about me changing my driving habits.

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davewill
Posts: 5083
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Remarkable shortfall against predicted range: yours?

Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:34 am

GroundLoop wrote:I'm not finding it to be even close in that regard.

For example, for three days I did mostly freeway driving, at ~70mph. My range was around 65miles, as expected.

On the fourth day, after a full charge, I can STILL get into the car and see a predicted range of 80 to 90 miles. This is totally bogus. It does not reflect the way I've been driving. I would expect it to predict 65 miles of range, or stick to some reference point that is consistently off. Instead, it seems to have some kind of built-in "optimism" about me changing my driving habits.
It's memory isn't that long. If you spent the last couple of miles before getting home driving city streets, that's what it will remember.
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2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

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