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TomT
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:38 am

I don't believe that the charger efficiency is anywhere near that low, at least at 240V... Look at the commercial 3.3Kw chargers that are available for EV applications: The lowest I could find was 84 percent. The highest was 90. (This again is at 240 - they are all significantly lower at 120.) Splitting the difference - since we are all guessing at this point - seems to be a good estimate of what is in the Leaf unless we can find the specific make and model and trace back that information from the manufacturer...
planet4ever wrote:Which proves? My calculator says 0.82 * 12.67 = 21.87. That's a lot closer to 21 than to the 24 you seem to be insisting on, mogur. A 24 kWh total battery capacity with 10% reserved (unusable) makes sense to me, and leaves us with 21.6 kWh usable.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:43 am

mogur wrote: Look at the commercial 3.3Kw chargers that are available for applications such as the Leaf: The lowest I could find was 84 percent. The highest was 90.

So, 87% then (your number) multiplied by 26.67kWh (your number) is 23.2026.

Still not 24.

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surfingslovak
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:01 am

TonyWilliams wrote:So, 87% then (your number) multiplied by 26.67kWh (your number) is 23.2026.

Still not 24.
Volt's pack is 16kWh and the Prius PHEV will have 5.2kWh. What is their usable battery capacity, perhaps 8 and 2.5kWh respectively? It would be foolish for Nissan to give us access to 95% of the pack (another infamous Mark Perry quote).
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TomT
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:36 am

I think that a less than .8kw difference certainly falls in the category of statistical insignificance... And 23.2026 is much closer to 24 than to 21... The bottom line, though, is that none of us know for sure what it really is...
TonyWilliams wrote:
mogur wrote: Look at the commercial 3.3Kw chargers that are available for applications such as the Leaf: The lowest I could find was 84 percent. The highest was 90.
So, 87% then (your number) multiplied by 26.67kWh (your number) is 23.2026.

Still not 24.
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Bassman
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 am

The numbers Nissan reported to EPA for their mpg rating was 24KWHrs. So It should be 24 KWHrs.
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surfingslovak
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:20 am

Bassman wrote:The numbers Nissan reported to EPA for their mpg rating was 24KWHrs. So It should be 24 KWHrs.
Yes, most definitely. Wouldn't this imply ~ 3 miles/kWh for the EPA cycle then? That's quite low. Even with 21kWh, I'm getting ~ 3.5kWh. I don't think that they drove to turtle during the cycle then or did they?
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surfingslovak
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:23 am

mogur wrote:I think that a less than .8kw difference certainly falls in the category of statistical insignificance...
Speaking of statistical significance, how many owners have tried to measure available pack capacity, and how often?
Last edited by surfingslovak on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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davewill
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:29 am

The whole 24kWh vs. 21kWh debate is very entertaining, but it's been chewed to death in other threads (to little conclusion I might add), and has NOTHING to do with calculating real world range using either speed or the mpk number the car gives us...which is the topic of this thread.
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DaveEV
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:31 am

mogur wrote:Look at the commercial 3.3Kw chargers that are available for EV applications: The lowest I could find was 84 percent. The highest was 90. (This again is at 240 - they are all significantly lower at 120.)
None of those efficiencies are counting the power it takes to run the cooling pumps during charging.

Look at what happens to a Tesla Roadster when you charge at 120V - charging efficiency drops in half because of the static charging overhead. Ouch!

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TomT
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:32 am

Between the TED I have on my EVSE circuit and the data from the Blink, it is pretty easy to get comprehensive data on a regular basis. I've run my down to dead three times now to collect data on a number of variables...
surfingslovak wrote:
mogur wrote:I think that a less than .8kw difference certainly falls in the category of statistical insignificance...
Speaking of statistical significance, how many owners have tried to measure available pack capacity, and how often?
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