Caracalover
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0567
Location: Tujunga
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:28 pm

LEAFfan wrote: I disagree in city driving. I use ECO all the time and have achieved 6.7m/Kwh. Can you duplicate that in 'D'?

I have to admit, I don't try to maximize range all that hard. I likely can but won't. You do with a heavy foot what I do with a light foot, accelerate slowly. When I try to go 35 on flat ground, and let off in ECO, I slow to 30 or less quickly, requiring me to push the pedal down and use energy again to regain that speed. In D I can pull my foot off and not lose as much speed, so it works better for me. I drive for a living and the right foot gets enough of a work out so I prefer to let the "transmission" do the work, like you I hardly ever use the brakes. It amazes me how people (in ICE) ride the brake coming down the mountain roads, I often wonder who taught them to drive. In the Leaf I can alternate between Eco, D, and N and keep up or pass people using no energy and even gaining regen - such a cool thing to do. I just don't spare the juice much since I don't have to. I am getting over 4 even so, although I hardly ever reset that meter. Doesn't the Leaf feel heavier when starting out in Eco? In D it moves with less friction feel, so while it requires more touch control to not use excess power, the car rolls easier, so it should use less energy. For instance, stop on a down grade and put the car in N, allowing it to roll using no power and see what speed you acquire at a given spot. Go back and do the same thing in D, monitor how much speed you gain and how much you regen, if any. Then try ECO. Use no pedal for any of these tests, and I think you will see my point. On some grades in Eco you won't move beyond creep, so you are not gaining Kinetic energy or regen. You can likely press the accelerator and get to a false N to get it to move using no energy, other than the pressure you are using on the pedal. I just can't feather my foot to not get heavy regen when I want light or no regen in ECO mode, and I think many drivers will find it hard to do as well.

Just turned 3000 miles today!!
26,000 miles on Silver Leaf
wildcatzoo.org drive there on Sunday across a big mountain, sorry no public charging at this time.
Looking for grants to put in solar port so perhaps in the future...

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:32 pm

Actually, it is not, but I suggest you do whatever works best for YOU...
LEAFfan wrote:You should have just added your 'charging' info, instead of copying the whole chart which is just the same as Tony's.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

marccbr
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 7:46 pm
Delivery Date: 05 May 2011
Location: San Diego, Ca. East County

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:52 pm

Alright did some calculations and came up with the following; it takes roughly 36min per bar given you are charging at 3.3 kw and the pack is a 24 kw pack.

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:01 pm

marccbr wrote:Alright did some calculations and came up with the following; it takes roughly 36min per bar given you are charging at 3.3 kw and the pack is a 24 kw pack.

But we only have about 21kw usable in the 24kw battery pack. So, 21kw divided by 13 fuel bars (12 you can see, and the final "no bar" fuel bar. So, about 1.65kw per actual fuel bar, and at 3.3kw recharging (assuming 100% efficient), so 1.65kw is half of 3.3kw, or about 30 minutes per fuel bar.

The other problem with the fuel bar equation, is that you don't really know where you are in reference to the current fuel bar. Is that fuel bar 100%, or 50%. Where are we starting from to add this fuel bar?

RobertJay
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:57 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3504

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table ** AMAZING HARD WORK

Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:15 pm

AMAZING how much time did it take you to do that chart. How many times have you tested the theory?

You MUST be an engineer !!!!

I have NEVER started car with range ever reading more than 91, any ideas what am i doing wrong

Is it very clear to get longest range go 40-50 miles/hr?

Do you suggest taking car out of ecco mode when going up 5 mile long uphill, and turning on ecco back on for downhill

Have you heard cost of replacing all the batteries in 5ish years when capacity will probably be 50% and range might be more like 50 miles?

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table ** AMAZING HARD WORK

Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:34 pm

RobertJay wrote:I have NEVER started car with range ever reading more than 91, any ideas what am i doing wrong

What you're doing wrong is looking at the 91 number from the guess-o-meter !!!

Is it very clear to get longest range go 40-50 miles/hr?

Longest range is at 38 mph (according to Nissan) with climate control off, level roadway, not too hot or cold, tires properly inflated, etc.

Do you suggest taking car out of ecco mode when going up 5 mile long uphill, and turning on ecco back on for downhill

I don't use ECO mode except for regen on downhills. Sounds like a good plan.

Have you heard cost of replacing all the batteries in 5ish years when capacity will probably be 50% and range might be more like 50 miles?

Well, nothing, should that happen, because the battery pack is warrantied by Nissan for 8 years.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table ** AMAZING HARD WORK

Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:26 am

Actually, there is no written or published battery capacity warranty... But I'm not worried or concerned over it.
TonyWilliams wrote:
Have you heard cost of replacing all the batteries in 5ish years when capacity will probably be 50% and range might be more like 50 miles?
Well, nothing, should that happen, because the battery pack is warrantied by Nissan for 8 years.
Last edited by TomT on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11477
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table ** AMAZING HARD WORK

Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:10 am

RobertJay wrote:Have you heard cost of replacing all the batteries in 5ish years when capacity will probably be 50% and range might be more like 50 miles?
Yes and that is called FUD.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table ** AMAZING HARD WORK

Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:56 am

mogur wrote:Actually, there is no written or published capacity warranty...

True, and not suggesting that there was. However, in the USA, there are ways to challenge and have a quasi legal definition of what that warranty really means.

Should Nissan play hard ball with the battery warranty (and I seriously doubt they would), then it will get challenged by individuals or groups in court.

I don't lose any sleep over the battery.

User avatar
jlambeth
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:54 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:34 pm

evnow wrote:
oakwcj wrote:I asked this question earlier in the thread without response, so I'll try again: I assume these estimates are based on the "D" setting and not on ECO mode. Is this assumption correct? If so, how much extra range can be squeezed out of ECO mode?
D & Eco don't matter that in - what matters to a certain extent is whether you are being careful with acceleration & braking. May be Eco mode helps there somewhat, personally I've not found any difference in m/kwh I get.
ECO claims to do a more aggressive job reclaiming power from the breaks, etc. Seems to be true, just try coasting down hill both ways. The rest (acceleration) is smoke and mirrors - this one thing seems real.
Jim

LEAF SL-e
Dealer: Stadium Nissan
Delivered: June 16,2011

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”