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evnow
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:36 pm

jlambeth wrote:ECO claims to do a more aggressive job reclaiming power from the breaks, etc. Seems to be true, just try coasting down hill both ways.
Yes, regen is more - but that can be achieved by a bit of braking as well.
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planet4ever
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:27 am

jlambeth wrote:
evnow wrote:
oakwcj wrote:how much extra range can be squeezed out of ECO mode?
D & Eco don't matter that in - what matters to a certain extent is whether you are being careful with acceleration & braking. May be Eco mode helps there somewhat, personally I've not found any difference in m/kwh I get.
ECO claims to do a more aggressive job reclaiming power from the breaks, etc. Seems to be true, just try coasting down hill both ways.
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean more range.
  • Stepping lightly on the brake pedal increases the regen, and can increase it to the same max in D or ECO.
  • Going downhill you may actually end up with more range in D, because increasing your speed may be a more efficient way to store energy than using regen. But this is a hotly debated topic, since more speed also means more air resistance.
Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

LEAFfan
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:30 pm

mogur wrote:Actually, it is not, but I suggest you do whatever works best for YOU...
+1...It's very easy to feather the pedal (for me), so I don't use full regen in ECO...I just time the lights and use what I need to slow a bit. And we don't have inclines where I live;the streets are mostly flat and easy to keep it in 'N' with the CC. Being in ECO helps me start out slower so I use only one-zero Power circles (depending if someone is behind me).
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TomT
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:51 pm

The quote of mine you referenced below has to do with range and the SOC chart so I'm not sure why you used it in this context... It had nothing top do with CC, D, ECO, inclines. or anything of that nature...
LEAFfan wrote:
mogur wrote:Actually, it is not, but I suggest you do whatever works best for YOU...
+1...It's very easy to feather the pedal (for me), so I don't use full regen in ECO...I just time the lights and use what I need to slow a bit. And we don't have inclines where I live;the streets are mostly flat and easy to keep it in 'N' with the CC. Being in ECO helps me start out slower so I use only one-zero Power circles (depending if someone is behind me).
Last edited by TomT on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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marccbr
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:59 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
marccbr wrote:Alright did some calculations and came up with the following; it takes roughly 36min per bar given you are charging at 3.3 kw and the pack is a 24 kw pack.

But we only have about 21kw usable in the 24kw battery pack. So, 21kw divided by 13 fuel bars (12 you can see, and the final "no bar" fuel bar. So, about 1.65kw per actual fuel bar, and at 3.3kw recharging (assuming 100% efficient), so 1.65kw is half of 3.3kw, or about 30 minutes per fuel bar.

The other problem with the fuel bar equation, is that you don't really know where you are in reference to the current fuel bar. Is that fuel bar 100%, or 50%. Where are we starting from to add this fuel bar?
Very true. For my calculations I will just assume that the current bar is just about empty.

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TomT
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:09 pm

And you reached this conclusion, how? I ran my down dead on purpose and put in a little over 26Kw (I have a TED5000 MTU on the circuit) to charge back to 100 percent. Considering the charger efficiency, this come out to darn close to 24Kw of usable capacity.

A number of other have come up with basically the same numbers as I did...
marccbr wrote: But we only have about 21kw usable in the 24kw battery pack.
Last edited by TomT on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:51 pm

mogur wrote:And you reached this conclusion, how? I ran my down dead on purpose and put in a little over 26Kw (I have a TED5000 on the circuit) to charge back to 100 percent. Considering the charger efficiency, this come out to darn close to 24Kw of usable capacity.

A number of other have come up with basically the same numbers as I did...
marccbr wrote: But we only have about 21kw usable in the 24kw battery pack.

There clearly is some debate over what that value is. I've charged mine many times from near zero, and only used 24.7kw max.

Don't know what to tell you. I'm sure someday we will have a definitive answer. But I don't believe that it's 24kw usable. That doesn't fit in with normal car marketing. Like the 100 miles bull.

For the purpose of the question, "how much L2 charging for one fuel bar", the answer is somewhere between 30 min (21kw) and 36 min (24kw).

electricfuture
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:18 pm

My recent trips have actually gained milage range . Left the house with 70 arrived at the dealership 6 miles away with 71! In the lot swiched on Echo mode and it went to 75! Got mack home with a loss of only 4 miles round trip!

Again today went 7 miles for the cost f 2 on the highway.

Car range usually drops initially and can come back some when your moing - but more than you started with? So the range calculator definitely has issues.

My take is that battery temperature is the culprit - along with elevation changes. Dealership said the battery likes to be in the 70 degree range for optimum performance so as it goes from 64 degree ambient to 75 degree ambient the calculated range increases.

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planet4ever
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:58 pm

electricfuture wrote:Car range usually drops initially and can come back some when your moving - but more than you started with? So the range calculator definitely has issues.

My take is that battery temperature is the culprit - along with elevation changes. Dealership said the battery likes to be in the 70 degree range for optimum performance so as it goes from 64 degree ambient to 75 degree ambient the calculated range increases.
Elevation changes, yes, but far more important than battery temperature is speed. Just as an example, say you were driving 65 on the freeway yesterday. Today you are driving 35 through town. When you wake up the computer this morning, it assumes you will be driving 65 today, and estimates you will get 70 miles. But then it sees you driving 35, and at that rate you could get 105 miles. However, at first your history is mostly at 65 and a bit 35. As you continue driving an ever-increasing percentage will be at 35, and the computer's total estimate will start climbing toward 105, except that at the same time it is being reduced by what you have already driven. Given speed differences it is not an "issue" that the range estimate would rise.

The "issue" the calculator has is that it only knows how fast you have been driving, not how fast you will be driving for the rest of the day. That, however, is a killer issue, since in most cases you don't even know yourself how fast you will be driving. Because of that, the whole concept is bonkers and can produce only nonsense results.

Ignore the guesstimator, watch the bars. How many times do we have to say that?

Ray
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:56 am

electricfuture wrote: So the (car) range calculator definitely has issues.

But we already know that !!! :idea:

Which is why we count fuel bars (until we all have homebuilt State of Charge meters)

The CarWings data is also bad for miles/KW data and miles driven.

The iPhone range is probably the craziest of all:

Image

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