pkitchen
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:40 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3248

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:10 pm

I find all the discussion, calculations, and personal systems for estimating range fascinating and informative, but I recently discovered the best range estimate is already provided by Nissan... It's the white range circle on the Nav display!

Bear with me here. After much data gathering and observation. I've proven to my satisfaction that the following are true:

1. The only thing that really matters is how many miles you actually travel for each bar shown on the battery gauge.
2. Obviously the number of miles you get per bar varies, but you can reset the trip odo's to keep track.
3. The car is keeping track of this and uses an averaging algorithm to drive the inner white range circle display.
4. This "white circle" display is the REAL range you will get despite the other 'optimistic' figure displayed in the cluster.

So here's the deal. That 'optimistic' number on the cluster is really nothing more that what MIGHT happen and it appears on the Nav range display as the outer "gray" circle. It is the "best case" scenario whereas the inner white circle range on the NAV display is the minimum range as predicted by the ACTUAL miles you are getting per bar. In my experience it is the inner range bar that is highly accurate and easy to use and track!

Check it out for yourself and let me know if what I have observed holds true!

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:43 pm

johnr wrote:Also, have you determined what is the most efficient speed? Is it indeed 38 mph? Or maybe something slower?
No, probably never going to do that. For many reasons. One, is that we don't have anything flat in San Diego... anywhere. If we did, I probably would do the testing, mostly to see if I could bump that speed up (or range up) with common sense mods, like increasing the tire pressure, perhaps lowering the car a bit, then some of the tricks hyper-miler folks do (fairings around wheels, boat tail, etc.).

Maybe a LEAF driver in Kansas will give it a try, if they can find a no wind day !!!

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EricH
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:54 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0664
Location: Whittier, CA

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:12 pm

pkitchen wrote: 4. This "white circle" display is the REAL range you will get despite the other 'optimistic' figure displayed in the cluster.

So here's the deal. That 'optimistic' number on the cluster is really nothing more that what MIGHT happen and it appears on the Nav range display as the outer "gray" circle. It is the "best case" scenario whereas the inner white circle range on the NAV display is the minimum range as predicted by the ACTUAL miles you are getting per bar. In my experience it is the inner range bar that is highly accurate and easy to use and track!

Check it out for yourself and let me know if what I have observed holds true!
Unless I've misread the manual, the inner "white" circle is effective round-trip range, and the outer "gray" circle indicates the one-way range from the current location. In practice, sticking to destinations in the "white" circle should always get you back to home base for a recharge.
Blue SL with QC
A/V Charger
Delivery: 3/26/11

mark13
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:05 pm

I had 8 miles of juice left after getting home from work last night..I always take the dogs to the dog park at 12 midnight, the dog park is 7 miles away..I decided to gamble and take the dogs to the park in the Leaf..
It was 95 outside @ midnight so that must of helped my short trip to the park..So I leave for the park @ 8 miles and drive no faster then 30 mph and arrive @ the park with 7 miles left and then drive home and only lose one more mile of charge with 6 miles left..

I used 2 miles of juice on a 7 mile trip :D This tells me that my 8 mile reserve was based on the 45 miles per hour I had just driven for 30 miles..

Im thinking that I could of gone possibly 15 miles on that 8 mile reserve if I continued to drive very slow..

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johnr
Posts: 884
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 2:08 pm
Delivery Date: 11 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2151
Location: Exeter, CA

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:45 am

The white circle is range as a bird flies. It doesn't take into account the bends in the roads.

In contrast with what a few others have posted, I've found that in most cases my best range reference is actually that number next to the bar graph! Assuming reasonably constant speed, the car is very accurate and precise in indicating how many miles remain. Even in varying speeds and conditions, I find that after going a few miles it has gathered sufficient data to become quite accurate. And this number updates constantly with a one-mile resolution, unlike the bar graphs which have a resolution of about 8 miles.
My trip to Mineral King and the value of regen

Charging stations, electrical adapters, and portable CHAdeMO quick chargers

2011 upgrade: Fossil < Leaf. 2014 upgrade: Leaf < imiev. 2017 upgrade: imiev < tesla. Done upgrading.

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:51 am

johnr wrote:I've found that in most cases my best range reference is actually that number next to the bar graph! Assuming reasonably constant speed, the car is very accurate and precise in indicating how many miles remain.

Which bar graph? Have you run the car to turtle to verify those numbers?

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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:20 am

johnr wrote:In contrast with what a few others have posted, I've found that in most cases my best range reference is actually that number next to the bar graph! Assuming reasonably constant speed, the car is very accurate and precise in indicating how many miles remain.
Unless you run it till turtle you won't know that. The basic problem with Leaf's range calculation is that it places too much emphasis on recent driving. That means, unless you live where the speeds are very similar (say near a freeway, with mostly freeway travel) and flat, it is going to be misleading.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
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Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:41 pm

Ok, I've tossed out revision 3 of my range chart. I've used the 21kWh of usable battery power that many have adopted. Also, I added the average kW based on the 21 number for each speed as suggested.

Even if there turns out to be closer to 21.6kWh available, I also think my speed 60mph column may be several miles short of overall range (over the 81), making the 3.9kW burn rate about the same.

I put a small number next to each range to indicate the miles available in that fuel bar, and adjusted the number 1 and 2 bars a bit.

Finally, I added a zero fuel bar that is just a note about transitioning to LowBatt from fuel bar 1. Several other changes, too.

Image

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:51 pm

Thanks Tony! I really appreciate the charts.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

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EricH
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:54 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0664
Location: Whittier, CA

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:06 pm

evnow wrote: Unless you run it till turtle you won't know that. The basic problem with Leaf's range calculation is that it places too much emphasis on recent driving. That means, unless you live where the speeds are very similar (say near a freeway, with mostly freeway travel) and flat, it is going to be misleading.
What would the alternative be? In order to predict range, the car would need to know where you were going (I use the Destination setting less than 5% of the time), as well as your planned speed, the topography details, and the traffic situation (XM here in Los Angeles only has freeway info, not city streets).

Nissan's "future performance is likely to resemble past performance" approach seems the only practical option here. Everyone realizes by now that if they drive 10 miles toward a freeway, then get on the freeway and drive 70+, their indicated range is going to basically collapse before their eyes. Absent a way to notify the car before you leave the driveway, that that's where I'm headed and how fast I'm going to drive, the Leaf is doing the best it can.
Blue SL with QC
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Delivery: 3/26/11

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