ECO mode vs. D mode on highway question

Question... i am looking to pick up my Leaf next week and learning huge amounts from this forum... so thank you in advance.

I live in the Bay Area, California and wondering if i will see any range difference on the Highway driving 65MPH, with AC and Radio in "eco" mode?

Is it unreasonable to expect something like 84-90 miles (before turtle) with this on 85/101? A couple of people believe this is doable.

tks

You would probably make that under good driving conditions (reasonable weather and traffic), but I would not want to risk it. I also would not want to bring it down to close to turtle on a regular basis. If you are confident about your weather and traffic conditions you could go for it - especially on a new battery, but just remember that if you have a traffic jam, high winds, rain, extreem heat or very cold, or if you drive aggressively you may not make it.

ecoobsessive said:

You would probably make that under good driving conditions (reasonable weather and traffic), but I would not want to risk it. I also would not want to bring it down to close to turtle on a regular basis. If you are confident about your weather and traffic conditions you could go for it - especially on a new battery, but just remember that if you have a traffic jam, high winds, rain, extreem heat or very cold, or if you drive aggressively you may not make it.

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thanks so much... does eco mode on the highway make any difference?

What kind of range are you seeing on the highway with AC on and off?

Here's how I use D vs ECO.

You can shift from D vs ECO at any time during your drive.

If you had ever owned a tiptronic or manual vehicle prior, it would be the same as to "drop a gear" down to D and get some acceleration/power perhaps to overtake momentarily or such.

I am always on ECO, and an example of when I shift to D momentarily is to over take another slower vehicle on the highway. Once I am cleared and at a distance cruising, I shift back to ECO.

mdh said:

thanks so much... does eco mode on the highway make any difference?

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Eco mode does not magically change the laws of physics or the efficiency of your motor or tires - it still takes the same amount of power to push your car forward against the various forms of friction at a given speed for a given distance in given terrain. Mainly what it does is dampen the response of the accelerator pedal, to help you avoid over-enthusiastic...acceleration (allow myself to introduce...myself). If you keep pushing down, the car will respond, just not as zoomily. The other thing it does is increase the propensity for, and aggressiveness of the regeneration response when you let up on the accelerator and/or apply the brakes. So in variable speed situations or hilly terrain there may be circumstances under which the car will recapture more energy than it would if you didn't engage eco mode. But again, it's not magic and basically the answer is no, at steady speed it does not make any difference - it cannot. Don't get me wrong - eco is good, I use it nearly 100% of the time...but it is not in and of itself a range extender the way, say, an ICE that actually disables some cylinders at cruising speed might be.

wsbca said:

mdh said:

thanks so much... does eco mode on the highway make any difference?

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Eco mode does not magically change the laws of physics or the efficiency of your motor or tires - it still takes the same amount of power to push your car forward against the various forms of friction at a given speed for a given distance in given terrain. Mainly what it does is dampen the response of the accelerator pedal, to help you avoid over-enthusiastic...acceleration (allow myself to introduce...myself). If you keep pushing down, the car will respond, just not as zoomily. The other thing it does is increase the propensity for, and aggressiveness of the regeneration response when you let up on the accelerator and/or apply the brakes. So in variable speed situations or hilly terrain there may be circumstances under which the car will recapture more energy than it would if you didn't engage eco mode. But again, it's not magic and basically the answer is no, at steady speed it does not make any difference - it cannot. Don't get me wrong - eco is good, I use it nearly 100% of the time...but it is not in and of itself a range extender the way, say, an ICE that actually disables some cylinders at cruising speed might be.

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It is also supposed to reduce consumption on AC/heat by reducing the output.

Actually, it is substantially different in that downshifting a gear on a manual or tiptronic type transmission actually does enhance acceleration by changing the gear ratio. In the Leaf, the difference between D and ECO simply changes the mapping of the travel of the accelerator. With the accelerator floored, the acceleration is exactly the same in both modes.

mxp said:

If you had ever owned a tiptronic or manual vehicle prior, it would be the same as to "drop a gear" down to D and get some acceleration/power perhaps to overtake momentarily or such.

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I've been using a bit more of Eco lately, and one other thing that Eco does compared to D is that when you brake, it uses more regen than in D. You can tell that by looking at the "instantaneous economy" shown above the "tree".

BTW, traffic jam is good for range as it reduces speed.

As earlier posts have indicated, eco mode doesn't magically increase the range of the car. Eco increases range in three ways: decrease throttle response to prevent aggressive acceleration, increase regenerative braking when you lighten on the accelerator pedal, and lower output from climate control. From what I've read on the forums, some drivers actually achieved better range on D compared to eco mode (if true, I believe the more aggressive brake regeneration may actually reduce range in comparison to the greater amount of idle cruising you can get on D). Of course, this difference depends on your driving patterns (eg. if you usually release the gas pedal to cruise on an ICE vehicle on the freeway, then the feeling if D mode will likely be more familiar and may yield you better range on the freeway, whereas good consistent control of the accelerator may make eco more suitable). Eco mode is probably more beneficial in city driving, where stronger acceleration out of stop signs/lights is generally not necessary, and increased regenerative braking before full stops is beneficial.

At a constant 65 mph, a more realistic regular trip distance is likely to be closer to the 73 mile range reported by the EPA than the 100 mile range advertised by Nissan. On a new battery, a 80-85 mile range is not out of the question for the car, but if this is the "normal" commute range, than I would probably reconsider on the purchase as future battery degradation may render the vehicle inappropriate for your use.

You guys seem way too optimistic to me. I'd say 70-75 miles would be the MAX at 65 mph, arriving absolutely dead. I'd limit a normal trip at that speed to 60 miles or so.

davewill said:

You guys seem way too optimistic to me. I'd say 70-75 miles would be the MAX at 65 mph, arriving absolutely dead. I'd limit a normal trip at that speed to 60 miles or so.

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Yep. 80 miles MAX at 60 mph, 73 miles MAX at 65 mph.

If aiming for 84-90 miles on a single charge, better limit speed to 55 mph.

davewill said:

You guys seem way too optimistic to me. I'd say 70-75 miles would be the MAX at 65 mph, arriving absolutely dead. I'd limit a normal trip at that speed to 60 miles or so.

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+1

I think you'll be too close, depending on how fast you drive. The 101/87 commute is mostly flat, which works in your favor, and you are driving through some heavy traffic (even with HOV lane) so you won't average faster than 55 mph (also in your favor).

55MPH and you can go about 80 miles before you hit turtle (assuming no heat and AC). However, in the winter with the rain you should worry as you'll need the AC on for defrost, and I suspect the rain will hurt the efficiency.

yoyofella said:

I think you'll be too close, depending on how fast you drive. The 101/87 commute is mostly flat, which works in your favor, and you are driving through some heavy traffic (even with HOV lane) so you won't average faster than 55 mph (also in your favor).

55MPH and you can go about 80 miles before you hit turtle (assuming no heat and AC). However, in the winter with the rain you should worry as you'll need the AC on for defrost, and I suspect the rain will hurt the efficiency.

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Defrost with AC is insignificant for the most part. In fact the AC is quite efficient when used in moderate climates.

yoyofella said:

However, in the winter with the rain you should worry as you'll need the AC on for defrost, and I suspect the rain will hurt the efficiency.

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I doubt the rain would actually negatively affect range. In fact, wet roads will likely lower friction significantly and may get you a better range at the cost of potentially increased danger since stopping distance is also increased. The wipers likely have negligible draw, but climate control (eg. the heater) may have a negative impact on range, though northern california doesn't generally get that chilly.

waitingforaleaf said:

I doubt the rain would actually negatively affect range. In fact, wet roads will likely lower friction significantly and may get you a better range at the cost of potentially increased danger since stopping distance is also increased.

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Wet roads increase your drag quite bit, much much worse if there is ANY standing water. Hypermilers will ride the "ridge" of the road where there is least wear, hopefully less water will accumulate there.

The hotter and humid the air is the more range you get, humid air has a lower density than dry air, hot air is also less dense... of course all this is moot if you leave range on the table by not inflating your tires to the max pressure printed on the sidewalls.. you can go a bit higher since there are vast safety margins built into radial tires.

hrmm...I've found that when I drove my ICE vehicle in the rain, I've generally gotten better gas mileage than on dry roads. But then again, I do generally follow the trail left behind by the cars in front of me. I'm not a "hypermiler" by any sense of the imagination, but if this is the mentioned ridge then perhaps that might explain the better mileage I've had under rainy conditions.

What's all this rain nonsense? There is no rain in the Bay Area this time of year.

As others have said, trying to go 90 miles at 65 mph is pure fantasy. I tried twice to go 90 miles at 55 mph and didn't make it either time, though I came very close. And that was after I had more than two months experience driving the car. ECO won't help significantly though I don't think it would hurt. Personally, I use ECO all the time because it feels more like driving our Prius and I like the ability to either coast or brake using the accelerator.

Ray

[Soapbox mode on]

Again, I have to refute this. There is NO credible evidence from ANY tire expert or manufacturer that such is the case. Just the opposite in fact. Telling people to go over the maximum rated pressure for any tire is simply dangerous. What's more, for a dramatically reduced safety margin, you get very little payback in return. If you want to do it yourself, fine, but don't tell others, who might not understand the negative ramifications, to do so as if it is gospel...

[Soapbox mode off]

Herm said:

Of course all this is moot if you leave range on the table by not inflating your tires to the max pressure printed on the sidewalls.. you can go a bit higher since there are vast safety margins built into radial tires.

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Perhaps they dont want to deal with the liability of reduced traction?.. less drag is less traction after all.