Collecting data:Off-the-wall power for turtle to 100% charge

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TickTock

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
1,701
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona
I want to start collecting data on the battery capacity of the various Leaf's represented here. Since not everyone has an SOC meter but many of us (all will a little effort) have a means to record the total power used for a full charge. Parital data is welcome (Ex: VLBW to 100%) but please make a note. I'll start with the two datapoints I know of today. Would be very interesting to see the range we have out there.

TickTock: 21.7 kWh Dead to 100 from the wall (20.04 kWh actually entering the battery)
vegastar: 25.5 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall

[Edit: added link to the compilation]
Leaf Capacity Variation
 
If you've had the NTB11-041 update, please also post your Carwings daily "energy used" reports, if they coincide with your
drive from 100% to VLB/turtle/dead.

That appears to me to be the most accurate way to estimate my battery capacity, without an available SOC or wall meter.
 
TomT said:
Three dead to 100% from the wall for me (data from TED):

26.8 KWh (about a month after I got it)
26.6 kWh
26.1 KWh (most recently)
Tom - I think you have a Blink SVSE, correct? How closely do the Blink KWh numbers correlate to those of your TED unit? The Blink is my only means of (semi-) accurately measuring actual KWh used to charge, so I'm curious as to how accurate it is...
 
Yep, I have a Blink. The numbers from the Blink (as of the version 1.7 firmware) were within about 2 percent of the TED.

ahagge said:
TomT said:
Three dead to 100% from the wall for me (data from TED):
26.8 KWh (about a month after I got it)
26.6 kWh
26.1 KWh (most recently)
Tom - I think you have a Blink SVSE, correct? How closely do the Blink KWh numbers correlate to those of your TED unit? The Blink is my only means of (semi-) accurately measuring actual KWh used to charge, so I'm curious as to how accurate it is...
 
I download the data straight from SDG&E's meter, and find the Blink to be understating the consumed power (during charge) by about 1.5%

ECOtality removed the one "dashboard" tile that was most useful from their web site dashboard -- it had the Blink-reported power out to the milliwatt (literally). Since then, I've stopped using the Blink reporting and just ask the meter how much power was consumed. After all, this is what my bill will reflect.

I've run the car down to turtle, then parked it with the heater on, then left it on with the fans running for hours. The lowest SOC reading I could get was "3". :)
 
You need more information for these numbers to be meaningful:
  • Voltage and amperage limit. (The longer it takes to charge, the lower the charging efficiency.)
  • Estimated battery temperature. (Cold batteries can't hold as much energy.)
TickTock said:
Since not everyone has an SOC meter but many of us (all will a little effort) have a means to record the total power used for a full charge.
I probably won't be playing, since for me "a little effort" would mean investing in an electric meter and wiring it into the 240v circuit I use for my EVSE upgrade. No, a TED won't work for me; I did look into that.

Ray
 
As TickTock said I got 25.5kW.h from turtle to full. It was charged with the European 230V 16A EVSE included with the car. When it was charged my garage was about 22ºC (72ºF) and the dash displayed 6 temperature bars when empty and when full.
 
OK summarizing so far:

  • TickTock:21.7 kWh Dead to 100 from the wall (EKM-25IDS meter, 20.04 kWh actually entering the battery)
    vegastar: 25.5 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (72F, 6 temp bars)
    TomT: 26.8 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (TED, new, 26.1 recently)

Anyone else have data to add? Maybe also mention the type of meter used (Blink, Ted, EKM, Kill-a-watt, or ?) since there seems to be some question on the accuracy of some.
 
My most recent number is 24.34 kWh from the wall using a Coulomb L2 EVSE. The car was in turtle with 5 gids left before I started charging. I'm seeing between 2% to 5% battery capacity reduction, presumably due to the cold temps (the Leaf is parked outside overnight).
 
Today from just entering turtle I got 22.86 kW.h from the wall. Before starting the charge, the battery rested for 1 hour and after that I got 6 gids and 312V from gary's SOC-meter (4 gids and 306V just after turning off the car). The garage temperature was 17ºC.

Unlike the last time from dead to 100% in which there were 3 charge stops events (equalizing?...), this time there was only 1 charge stop event. Charge stopped at 5:42AM and at 7:30 AM when my wife picked up the car, it was still not charging again, so I think the battery pack is well equalized.
 
24ºC garage in the previous measurement, from dead to 100% (this time it was from turtle to 100%, as I arrived in the garage with 12 gids and used the heater to achieve 4 gids (turtle) and stopped the discharge immediately). This time the garage was at 17ºC, but the battery was colder as it is colder outside (12ºC). In the summer was the opposite as the outside temperature was higher than the garage. I think in the first time some energy was wasted in the equalization of the battery (3 stop messages). I use the provided Nissan EVSE (in Portugal it is a 230V 16A unit). I think there is some temperature degradation and some battery degradation... The charging is very efficient as I have 3.3 to 3.4 kW in the SOC-meter and around 3.7kW at the wall.
 
vegastar said:
Today from just entering turtle I got 22.86 kW.h from the wall. Before starting the charge, the battery rested for 1 hour and after that I got 6 gids and 312V from gary's SOC-meter (4 gids and 306V just after turning off the car). The garage temperature was 17ºC.
How many gids did it read when it stopped?

Interesting to see how much fluctuation we're seeing...
 
TickTock said:
OK summarizing so far:

  • TickTock:21.7 kWh Dead to 100 from the wall (EKM-25IDS meter, 20.04 kWh actually entering the battery)
    vegastar: 25.5 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (72F, 6 temp bars) (22.85kWh recently@274 gids, 393V)
    TomT: 26.8 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (TED, new, 26.1 recently)
    surfingslovak: 24.34 kWh from turtle to 100 from the wall using Coulomb EVSE

Anyone else have data to add? Maybe also mention the type of meter used (Blink, Ted, EKM, Kill-a-watt, or ?) since there seems to be some question on the accuracy of some.
 
TickTock said:
TickTock said:
OK summarizing so far:

  • TickTock:21.7 kWh Dead to 100 from the wall (EKM-25IDS meter, 20.04 kWh actually entering the battery)
    vegastar: 25.5 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (72F, 6 temp bars) (22.85kWh recently@275 gids, 393V)
    TomT: 26.8 kWh Turtle to 100 from the wall (TED, new, 26.1 recently)
    surfingslovak: 24.34 kWh from turtle to 100 from the wall using Coulomb EVSE

Anyone else have data to add? Maybe also mention the type of meter used (Blink, Ted, EKM, Kill-a-watt, or ?) since there seems to be some question on the accuracy of some.
 
I will reply with data when I get it compiled. I have been recording trip and charge data on note cards since I picked up my Leaf in June. TickTock's charge kWh numbers from turtle to 100% are significantly lower than I have measured. My commute dictates that I charge to 100% every charge so I may see capacity loss sooner than others.

Gerry
 
I suggest you also post the Carwings total kWh data (and CW update status) for each 100% to (Dead or Turtle) interval, available for each day, and for each ”trip” (on/off cycle) from the “electric rate simulation”.

If the measured charge ever differs from CW use data, by any amount, other than as can be accounted for by charging inefficiency or variations in battery temperature, it would be very useful to know. If it doesn't vary, you might then consider CW reports, as accurate for available battery capacity, for the prior charge.

As posted elsewhere, my highest 100% charge CW reported kWh use/available battery capacity was 18.7 kWh, from 100% to just past LBW, and I have no practical way to drive further, due to the turtle-unfriendly terrain, near my home.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5423&hilit=carwings+update&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, is the CC use limited before turtle? What would happen if you try to induce turtle from a stationary position, by using the heater?
 
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