edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:00 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
edatoakrun wrote: And, with no demand charges with PG&E, an even better location for A DC site.
What do you base this statement on? Is there a specific rate plan that you are referring to?

Of course, it's no surprise that I am looking to find those logical places to put DC chargers with my company, Quick Charge Power. It's one of the many missions for this expedition.

Naturally, they must either make financial sense (few sites will, to be honest) or be subsidized in some way. No demand charges would go a long way to subsidize the cost, but I can't imagine the PG&E does not have them. I'm actually quite sure they do.
Well, correct me if I am wrong, but, as I have posted many times before:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See rates AI and A-6.

Both available for under 200 kW use, with no demand charges, which should allow up to several 50 kW DCs, as well as all other use, for the typical DC highway location, such as a restaurant or coffee shop.

IMO, TOU factors would indicate that site owners would probably want to offer TOU rates for L2, and definitely for DC.

And as I have also already mentioned, IMO, anyone seeking entry into the CA DC business should be looking at the Vacaville (Highest potential customer base in PG&E) area, as one of the locations, most likely to be among the first sites to be profitable.
Last edited by edatoakrun on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:09 am

edatoakrun wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
edatoakrun wrote: And, with no demand charges with PG&E, an even better location for A DC site.
What do you base this statement on? Is there a specific rate plan that you are referring to?

Of course, it's no surprise that I am looking to find those logical places to put DC chargers with my company, Quick Charge Power. It's one of the many missions for this expedition.

Naturally, they must either make financial sense (few sites will, to be honest) or be subsidized in some way. No demand charges would go a long way to subsidize the cost, but I can't imagine the PG&E does not have them. I'm actually quite sure they do.
Well, correct me if I am wrong, but, as I have posted many times before:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See rates AI and A-6.

Both available for under 200 kW use, with no demand charges, which should allow up to several 50 kW DCs, as well as all other use, for the typical DC highway location, such as a restaurant or coffee shop.

IMO, TOU factors would indicate that site owners would probably want to offer TOU rates for L2, and definitely for DC.

And as I have also already mentioned, IMO, anyone seeking entry into the CA DC business should be looking at the Vacaville (PG&E) area, as one of the locations, most likely to be among the first sites to be profitable.
Coulomb is looking (logically) as I am at Vacaville. I did miss that info, as I don't read every single post here. Not even the majority of posts. I already spend too much time here!!!

Edit: I just read through a large number of the various rate schedules, and none of them mention "demand charges". That leads me to believe that these schedules don't tell the whole story (they don't include rates either), therefore I wouldn't be so brash to suggest that there are no demand fees. I just think the linked information doesn't cover it.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:18 am

http://www.ijpr.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

News and Info call-in show on alternate fuels in Jefferson right now.
no condition is permanent

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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:43 am

Breakfast was great ! Kim is the waitress/Jacqueline-of-all-Trades. "The chef ?" you ask ... if you're a Seinfeld fan ... it makes sense: PACO ! (This fact did not negatively impact the quality of the food ;) )

Tip for Kim: I did. And will buy and take home some of the olives later.

Wi-fi at BK across street.

I made it here (counter to my plan because I found two well-behaved trucks) on I-5 on cruise control (1st truck: 63-65, 2nd: 61-62) under perfect slipstreaming conditions. WARNING: do not attempt; if you do (!), liability and responsibility is all yours ! 69 miles, 65% SOC used. Calm/no crosswinds (which destroy the slipstream effect), cool (60F), sunny.

Will leave for Woodland when I have enough to do 84 miles (keep an eye on the cross-winds) and/or charging current starts to taper off. Depending on conditions I am apt to cancelling the back-roads plan ... we'll see.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 am

edatoakrun wrote:http://www.ijpr.org/

News and Info call-in show on alternate fuels in Jefferson right now.

I called and talked a bit about the trip, trying to emphasize how California is behind Oregon and Washington.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:31 am

LEAFer wrote:Breakfast was great ! ...
I made it here (counter to my plan because I found two well-behaved trucks) on I-5 on cruise control (1st truck: 63-65, 2nd: 61-62) under perfect slipstreaming conditions...
I don't try that, for fear of (delicate aluminum) hood or windshield damage.

Not exactly sure what 65% SOC works out to, but that sounds very good. Could you say what you believe was your kWh use, or dash/nav m/kWh, for this drive?

I figured by your times that you must have have used a fairly large part of 100%.

You really think you "beat" driving ~45 mph, on either Rawson road or A8 (my route north) and old 99 from Red Bluff south, in total travel/charge time?
no condition is permanent

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gbarry42
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:48 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Moonlight Beach

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:58 pm

LEAFer wrote: I made it here (counter to my plan because I found two well-behaved trucks) on I-5 on cruise control (1st truck: 63-65, 2nd: 61-62) under perfect slipstreaming conditions. WARNING: do not attempt; if you do (!), liability and responsibility is all yours !
"Don't try this yourself"... :o

But you did it anyway ;)

In someone else's car :)

And then told everyone about it :D

In writing! :lol:
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:03 pm

!!! :shock: Yes .. yes I did. I am careful, but who isn't. No problems with any kind of damage. I do choose my trucks carefully and pay attention to road conditions. Another nice advantage with Tony's LEAF is that it has a continuous "wrap" (with all the promotional logo on top of it) on the most "sensitive" parts.

Some (preview) of the data:

D/A = Departure or Arrival
Time = Nissan "eye" (slow by a minute, I think)
Tmp = Nissan "eye"; inaccurate when rising quickly; "*" means corrected later to my guesstimate;
BTB = Nissan dash BatteryTempBars
SB = Nissan dash Bars (GOM)
GOM = GOM miles (D mode)
G# = gids, y'all know ;)
G% = LeafCAN SOC % (gids in % of 281)
miles = road miles traveled
EE = Average Energy Efficiency (dash) m/kWh (at arrival; reset prior to each departure)

Code: Select all

Where       D/A  Time Tmp BTB SB GOM  G#   G% miles  EE
----------------------------------------------------------
Shasta Lake Dep 07:03 52F  6  12 114 278 98.9  
Orland      Arr 08:13 61F  6   3  29  98 34.9  67.3 4.8  Drafted on CC at 63-65/61-62; 
                                                         after restart: G# = 96
Orland      Dep 12:40 77F* 6  12 111 271 96.4            GOM=96@1st miles; (Tmp was 61F)
Woodland    Arr 14:13 77F  6   2  14  67 23.8  84.1 5.2  after restart: SB=1, G#=65; drafted on CC 57mph;
                                                         manually cycled A/C 25% of the miles

Not sure if the backroads (worse shape and also agricultural traffic and "stuff" on the road) would have been safer (damage) than drafting. Yes I could have gone 45mph there. But I try to use (and show) the LEAF as a "regular" car, at "regular" speeds, as regular as I can make it given the range limits where EVSEs are "rare". Ok ... so the speed limit is 70 ... but we know I can't do that on these stretches without the (worse) consequence of a tow truck.

I cycled the A/C manually; even though it was only 77, driving south 12N-2pm with the huge windshield causes a lot of solar heating. The A/C was drawing only 4-5amps extra on top of 22-26amps (without A/C) on flat stretches from Orland to Woodland drafting at 57 with CruiseControl.

I left Orland 40+ minutes late, not because I wanted a "full" charge, but because at the last minute prior to planned departure Jack W. (owner) came over and we had some lively discussion. Jack W. earned a T-Shirt. So, Tony, expect a call from "both Jacks" ...
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:04 pm

I left Woodland early to beat the worst of the traffic, knowing I could not make it home. But I beat the traffic :D

So I stopped south of the worst traffic congestion ... the Elk Grove Nissan Dealer ... for almost 1 hour. They took photos, and I explained the "story" behind the "colorful" car :) Might see something on their facebook page soon.

With enough to make it home on VLBW I took off from Elk Grove ... but turned the tracker off some time prior to my last and final leg. Made it home with 24 gids by 6pm for a home-cooked meal almost ( I was early ) ready. Official data reporting for Tuesday will end with the Elk Grove Nissan dealer.

Time for dinner. 8-)

More info soon ...
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: BC2BC Return Trip

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:33 pm

I've updated my post on the first page with the stats from the Shoreline to Portland jaunt and am working on a trip report... though compared to what Leafer is pulling of, it is a drop in the bucket, GO LEAFER!
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
9.8 kW PV Solar installed 9/12, http://www.westseattlenaturalenergy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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