Rodriguez
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:08 pm

I tried to search this thread, but apparently the words ''charging'' and ''charge'' are too common and the forum doesn't want to return a result.

I was just pondering, if we'd assume that the DC inlet, cabling etc is up to spec to receive more power than 50kW would it be possible to trick/hack the car to getting a higher charge rate if the charger can supply it? With a 50+ kWh pack the battery doesn't get stressed that much as it used to.

Daklein
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:13 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:41 pm
Hyundai appears to be circulating cabin air through their hybrid battery.
True, many hybrid vehicles use smaller packs and it's nice (cost-wise) to have an air cooled pack inside the cabin. Batteries are comfortable in similar conditions as people, temperature wise. But they're designed have the air circulated through them. They could get condensation (some spring days where the vehicle & battery is cold from the previous time in the cold garage, and the outside air is now warm and moist), but it would not be on the terminals, wiring, controller, etc, it would be on the cooling channels and would shortly be removed by dehumidified cabin air. Some are high voltage like ~100V or less, but not usually 400V DC.

The eNV200 pack cooling duct that cools the rear bank of cells can be seen here: https://youtu.be/Oah-UB3d2_8?t=34 The video doesn't show much of the cooling heat exchanger and fan, but you can get the idea.
2014 Leaf S Plus :o (12/2019 62kWh swap!)

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm

I am still curious why Nissan didn’t try to put at least a fan with the 62 pack. Admittedly, even running hundreds of miles on very hot days and fast charging didn’t hit an issue. I just don’t know yet whether it will lead to a faster battery decline.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
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Daklein
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:14 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm
I am still curious why Nissan didn’t try to put at least a fan with the 62 pack. Admittedly, even running hundreds of miles on very hot days and fast charging didn’t hit an issue. I just don’t know yet whether it will lead to a faster battery decline.
It's so tight in there, it would require ducting to circulate it evenly, a little power to run the fan (maybe 40-100 watts based on what a squirrel cage blower on my woodstove can use), for benefit just some times. The bigger thermal mass of the batteries, and the better cells. I respect Nissan for keeping it simple, and not giving in to the 98th or whatever percentile use cases. The little 24kWhr battery with no cooling works great 95% of the time. Now I feel a little guilty dragging this heavy sled around, just to have enough range for some longer trips.

The van, with likely more extended daily driving use cases, apparently warranted the still minimal cost system; chilller in the a/c refrigerant circuit, fan & ducts inside the battery. Still avoids the likely higher cost of cooling plates to touch all the cells, plumbing and risk of leaks, extra cooling pumps, service procedures to fill the system without any air bubbles left, etc.
2014 Leaf S Plus :o (12/2019 62kWh swap!)

Oilpan4
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:41 pm

Hyundai runs 270v on their hybrid air cooled pack.

That's why it would have to be easy to seal back up air tight for rainy days.

As muxsan showed us Nissan can cool the pack. The NV-200 has liquid cooling and fans in it.
I always thought it looked liked the gen 1 pack had the modules packed in there loosely.
Turns out if the modules are packed in tight the back hump is free to house a heat exchanger and fans.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:21 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:41 pm
Hyundai appears to be circulating cabin air through their hybrid battery.

That's the thing with water. You think something is sealed up well enough to keep water out, but only sealed up enough to not let it back out.

Today relative humidity is 14%. That's normal for winter.
Kia does the same thing. There is quite the difference between ambient air and forced air circulation. Even modest positive pressure is good. Granted Kia has a fan to help but its still cabin air. TBH; It would be the most helpful in Summer as many EVs do not have the cold weather fits that plagues TMS. Its heat and you would be pushing conditioned air thru the pack which is naturally lower in humidity anyway.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:24 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm
I am still curious why Nissan didn’t try to put at least a fan with the 62 pack. Admittedly, even running hundreds of miles on very hot days and fast charging didn’t hit an issue. I just don’t know yet whether it will lead to a faster battery decline.
No room. It was already a challenge getting the 62 kwh pack to fit (this is why they were released late.) So adding more stuff w/o a complete redesign would not have happened. I am guessing they "could" have done it to the 40 kwh pack with the advanced cell design but felt that is was a different driving segment and I agree on that point.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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mux
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:05 am

Rodriguez wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:08 pm
I tried to search this thread, but apparently the words ''charging'' and ''charge'' are too common and the forum doesn't want to return a result.

I was just pondering, if we'd assume that the DC inlet, cabling etc is up to spec to receive more power than 50kW would it be possible to trick/hack the car to getting a higher charge rate if the charger can supply it? With a 50+ kWh pack the battery doesn't get stressed that much as it used to.
Ssshht, I've been doing this since last sunday and it's not going quite as planned yet, but don't blow my cover, I want to make a big video where it seems like everything just worked first try!

Rodriguez
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 am

Haha I'll keep an eye on my YouTube feed.

powersurge
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:24 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm
I am still curious why Nissan didn’t try to put at least a fan with the 62 pack. Admittedly, even running hundreds of miles on very hot days and fast charging didn’t hit an issue. I just don’t know yet whether it will lead to a faster battery decline.
No room. It was already a challenge getting the 62 kwh pack to fit (this is why they were released late.) So adding more stuff w/o a complete redesign would not have happened. I am guessing they "could" have done it to the 40 kwh pack with the advanced cell design but felt that is was a different driving segment and I agree on that point.
You can't just put in a fan into the battery. Physics won't work.... Heat moves from hot to cold... To cool, you don't ADD cold, you take away heat and send it somewhere.

If you put a fan pumping outside air into the battery, there will be many instances where the outside air will be HOTTER than the battery, and the fan will actually heat the battery. Also, if the air is very cool outside, then the cold outside air of the fan will take away heat from the battery and freeze the battery, which is also NG.

A cooling fan needs to blow air (or fluid) that will ALWAYS be cooler than the battery, but will turn off if the battery is too cold.

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