coulomb
Posts: 124
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Leaf Number: 200445
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:50 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:39 pm
Your kelvin week henry should be spelled out it as it is...weak. Context tells us the person who leads is not metallic.
You can't always use context, or be sure about context. A "fifty KW battery"... ok, obviously not a kelvin watt battery, but if we were just talking about fast charging, is this a battery of 50 kWh capacity, or a battery that can be charged at a maximum rate of 50 kW? Sometimes, it's genuinely hard to tell, and it takes extra effort to use more context to eliminate one or the other. But if I'm talking to Mux or cwerdna, I know they mean the latter, and their shift key came on a fraction too early.
2012 Leaf with new battery May 2019. New to me June 2019.

WetEV
Posts: 4129
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:20 am

coulomb wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:50 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:39 pm
Your kelvin week henry should be spelled out it as it is...weak. Context tells us the person who leads is not metallic.
You can't always use context, or be sure about context. A "fifty KW battery"... ok, obviously not a kelvin watt battery, but if we were just talking about fast charging, is this a battery of 50 kWh capacity, or a battery that can be charged at a maximum rate of 50 kW? Sometimes, it's genuinely hard to tell, and it takes extra effort to use more context to eliminate one or the other. But if I'm talking to Mux or cwerdna, I know they mean the latter, and their shift key came on a fraction too early.
In utility batteries, the charge/discharge rate is often what is specified. So might be specified as a 50 MW battery with two hours of capacity.

A 24 kW battery would make for a fairly slow car.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15308
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Leaf Number: 319862
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Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:24 am

coulomb wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:50 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:39 pm
Your kelvin week henry should be spelled out it as it is...weak. Context tells us the person who leads is not metallic.
You can't always use context, or be sure about context. A "fifty KW battery"... ok, obviously not a kelvin watt battery, but if we were just talking about fast charging, is this a battery of 50 kWh capacity, or a battery that can be charged at a maximum rate of 50 kW? Sometimes, it's genuinely hard to tell, and it takes extra effort to use more context to eliminate one or the other. But if I'm talking to Mux or cwerdna, I know they mean the latter, and their shift key came on a fraction too early.
Ok, you are doing nothing more than inserting random terms associated with the context at hand. Just because "kw" and "kwh" look about the same does not mean they are synonyms. In NO version of language; accepted, defined or slang are the two terms interchangeable. Its like using the terms "acid" and "base" interchangeably and relying on context for people to know the difference.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
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SageBrush
Posts: 5590
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:03 am

Clear thinking is highly valued by those who have it or want it; and poo poo'd by those who prefer to hide their deficiency behind a facade of "laziness."

I can no more intentionally write kW when I mean kWh than I can intentionally write power when I mean energy unless for some reason I am playing the fool. If I am participating in information exchange then fools are dead weight.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Battery Upgrades costs with rebates ($8800 and probably or less over time)

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:17 pm

Hi Folks;

While there has been vigorous conversation on kWh and variations (intended or otherwise - and personally, I really loved learning about the namesakes behind the units and other aspects, very cool!), as one of our purposes on this thread is to focus on the very good possibilities and I would think the advocacy of upgrading, I'm still wondering about If we have a mynissanleaf.com forum thread here that lists current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives?

This means that even down the road for someone who holds on to their 24 kWh Leaf, by having that dynamic information readily attainable, we are encouraging / facilitating that kind of recycling / upgrading (and fun to boot)!

To reiterate : my costs: were $7500 62 kWh battery + $1300 installation for about $8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro) before local incentives such as SCE in my case. For example, in some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) provide rebates for used EVs, and that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finished last year (2020).

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng?gcli ... ZbEALw_wcB


https://greenlining.org/publications/20 ... ATEALw_wcB

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

https://www.electricdrive805.org/free-ev-ve-gratuito/

Aloha!
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
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11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:02 pm

I know of no such topic, and I suggest that you start one. It would be very useful. Just copy the above post as the first post, if you like.
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jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:47 pm

Thanks for that suggestion, I looked at the FAQ's and found:

:How do I create a new topic or post a reply?
To post a new topic in a forum, click "New Topic". To post a reply to a topic, click "Post Reply". You may need to register before you can post a message. A list of your permissions in each forum is available at the bottom of the forum and topic screens. Example: You can post new topics, You can post attachments, etc.:

But I don't see "New Topic" -- where might I look?

Mahalo
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:57 pm

About 1/4 of the way down the page is the Board Index listing with "Battery Upgrades are very possible" in larger letters and the location of this topic just to the right of it. If you click on the part of it that says "Enhancements" you should then see, again about 1/4 of the way down the page, the posting window for 'New Topic'. If you can't see it then you may not have enough posts accumulated, yet.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5590
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:31 pm

jbsocdelica wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:47 pm
But I don't see "New Topic" -- where might I look?
This way works ...
1. Go to viewforum.php?f=27
Then

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Re: Battery Upgrades 62 kWh on the cheap (new post, mahalo)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:21 pm

Yup, it worked, and here is my first 'new subject' post, Mahalo!

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 92#p596592

Hi Folks;

I was thinking about relatively inexpensive upgrades costs for the Leaf and I organized my thinking along the following ideas:

1) Previous discussions here
2) Emerging costs saving ideas including rebates
3) Upgrade example
4) Categories of costs savings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) In another subforum here:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=27600

I have found vigorous conversation on kWh and variations (intended or otherwise) (i.e. technical issues / nomenclature). Two outstanding figures in that forum are Daniel / Dala the Great (https://dalasevrepair.fi/) and Muxan (https://muxsan.com/English/index.html). I believe their work has helped fundamentally set the foundation for DYI upgrades and a growing cottage industry installers (ranging from mobile mechanics to full on EV battery replacement shops). Along those lines, as well, Evehanced (https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-bat ... -upgrades/ ) has come out with some really cool tools to make battery pairing a snap, and in North America, EVRIDESLLC (https://evridesllc.com/) among others are also doing battery upgrades / enhancements on a professional level (with professional prices to boot).

Personally, in the other forum I referred to, I really loved learning about the namesakes behind the units and other aspects, very cool!). I think common to a number of sub forums a major purposes is to make this all doable, i.e. low / lower cost upgrades.

2) Maybe we can create a kind of an emerging / evolving database listing current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives.

It also means that even down the road for someone who is still holding on to their 24 kWh Leaf, by having that dynamic information readily attainable, we are encouraging / facilitating that kind of recycling / upgrading (and fun to boot)!

3) In my case for example in Southern California, I bought a 2011 6 bar Leaf last year for $3k and then added a 62 kWh battery upgrade.

After initial purchase, my costs were $7500 for a 62 kWh battery + $1300 installation (Pavel of Los Angeles) for about $8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro) before local incentives such as SCE in my case (as well as buy back for part of my old battery back) kicked in.

For me, that made the vehicle a really good investment for the next 10 years, 230+ mileage range for well under 11k (with my incentives). At the moment, that strikes it about $4k under just buying a used Bolt -- which means it has its own sweet spot, I think. (In Los Angeles, for example, a Bolt can be had for starting about $15k + 10% tax).

Some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) may provide rebates for used EVs, and that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finished last year (2020).

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng?gcli ... ZbEALw_wcB

https://greenlining.org/publications/20 ... ATEALw_wcB

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

https://www.electricdrive805.org/free-ev-ve-gratuito/

https://plugstar.zappyride.com/tools/incentives


Los Angeles County

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12312



Bay Area, California

https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-ince ... nd-rebates

Burbank, California

https://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/co ... -ev-rebate

Pennsylvania

https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/dr ... delectric/

I also came across a sort of state listing which seems pretty promising for lots of EV resources, used and new :

https://clippercreek.com/ev-incentives/

4) Again pieces of the the main idea are :

a) Making the Leaf super affordable by way of any mechanism (rebates, low battery exchanges / upgrades, purchasing)
b) Keeping an eye out on great battery deals for the 62 kWh or 40 kWh (my local installer, Pavel, gave me three sites at the time to look for purchasing. Then, I had the option of getting a 40 kWh battery for about $5500 (I'll have to check my notes), but I decided more range would better over the long term.

At the moment, http://www.advanceautosalvage.com/ is selling a 40 kWh for about $7k. They ship nationally.

And if you're really a go getter:

https://erepairables.com/salvage-cars-a ... issan/leaf


c) Giving folks the best strategies of when to buy a used one to take advantage of an 8 bar under warranty
d) Strategies for getting the 30 kwh battery upgraded for free
e) Engaging in preventative repair and cheap repair shops that are Leaf friendly
f) Understanding how to best sell the old pack to recoup some, if not all costs (or more!) of installation,
g) free / low cost charging (including cheap solar panel ideas) and
h) ? (anything along those lines to make the Leaf a budget friendly vehicle for many years to come)

So if you have an addons to this, I hope you'd be doing a service for a lot of folks who might not have known there were resources available for really low cost vehicle ownership over an extended period of time.

Aloha!
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

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