Battery Upgrades are very possible

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Yeah, direct pairing is basically not an option. You need the CAN bridge to actually use the car (safely). There's a bunch of other things that end up not working when you do a nonidentical battery swap with the direct pairing method, like your AC/heater not working, the brake system tripping up every so often and excessive battery drain due to the battery CAN messages not stopping and keeping the CAN system alive when the car is off.

The batteries are mechanically compatible and the connectors are identical, but that's really where compatibility stops. And there's not just compatibility issues between battery generations; within generations there are pretty significant firmware differences. The first few UK and US battery swaps we've done with our kit ended up not being able to (properly) QC, which ended up being a firmware issue. Then a Slovenian (also US import) car came to us and had a whole bunch of other weird LBC/VCM-related quirks with a battery swap. You end up needing to do quite a lot of subtle stuff to make everything work, and even then we've now resorted to installing an extra CAN bridge on the CAR-CAN side to fix some (quality of life) display issues, like fixing the horrible GOM when increasing battery capacity, fixing the battery health meter and fixing the battery bars to actually work linearly.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Here is a way to improve that air cooling. Mount the battery on the roof.
If you actually watch the video, he explains (9:25) that 's just the shell of the old battery (mostly empty). It is not a 2nd battery mounted for use.

You should not try putting [a] full battery on LEAF; it will probably break under the weight.
 
Enough talk about theory: how about a real live 24->40 kWh battery swap/install! The donor pack came from a (local) salvaged 2020 Leaf; I installed Dala's CAN-bridge myself and Chris Murphy's Automotive did the pack swap. I'm probably going to write a blog about it for EAA, but here's a couple of pics to whet your appetite.
rs=w:740,cg:true

You can see from the dash pic that the pack was in really good shape (good things come to those who wait).
rs=w:740,cg:true
 
Stanton said:
Enough talk about theory: how about a real live 24->40 kWh battery swap/install!
Wonderful !

Let us know where to read details. Please include a Leafspy cell voltage histogram, and of course installation details and costs.
I really like the 40 kWh pack size for extended-local driving.
 
Stanton said:
The whole car cost me $12k (plus fees). So I paid roughly $300 per kWh.
Thanks for the information.

I'm thinking ...
Another ~ $600 for the Can-bridge
Another ~ $400 if Can-bridge installation is not DIY
Another ~ $1000 to install the pack

So about $14k for a lightly used 40 kWh pack upgrade without warranty into a 10 year old car.
I'm not going that route, but I respect your desire to keep the car on the road.

Happy driving !
 
Stanton said:
Yes. Love this car (if that wasn't already obvious). :D

I have the same feeling about my 2012 red Leaf with upgrade wheels - love it. The only problem is it will not make it to my rural property on one charge (~100 miles one way). Still trying to decide how to resolve this so I don't have to take my (work) Suburban. every time. Truly wish there was an option of upgrade here in Houston. How much to you think this entire swap will cost you assuming you will part out the 2020??

BTW, my Leaf has 50+ amp-hours after almost 4 1/2 years on the "lizard" battery - with 40 psi tires at 4.2 miles/kWH mixed driving, it will go over 60 miles! I'd guess the battery might be worth something also.
I'm not into range anxiety much as I know the car (battery) quite well.
 
Some one PM'd me about some suggestion having gone through this (see my other posts), I tried to write them back, but there was an SQL error, so I'm posting most of what I attempted to write:


Hi G*******, (handle omitted for privacy)

Having gone down this road, in terms of

a) sourcing the battery (TN) and

b) working with local installer,

I would suggest a few things.

1) clear written contract with time and warranty spelled out

2) have the photo I.D. your installer and her / his / their home / real business address on the contract (make it pretty legal, if they hesitate, they are not worth your time)

3) **** tel number here for battery source, so only available PM

4) Buy with a major credit card so you are protected if there are any issues at the battery purchase end

5) Calculate some advance costs, if your mileage is over 50 / 60KK, I believe you should think twice, because other things break on the Leaf (internal charging unit, inverter, A/C, etc.) that don't make sense when you could buy a Bolt for 13K that's 7 years newer (at fire sale prices)

6) ask your local installer for 4 references with pictures of real installs

7) have contractor use Dala's canbus.

8) use larger tires, see my posts, runs so much better on highway (and less sag with added weight even without my planned shock / strut change)

9) Get the 62kwh battery, at the moment they are low mileage and seemingly with little degradation.

10 Use Dala's programming to set 90%charge limit, will protect battery, and with 62 kwh, you get to go pretty far anyways

11) If possible, start with a California Leaf so you eliminate most rust issues (and of course see some of the wonderful rust proofing entries in this forum

Errors I made:

1) didn't check references enough
2) I had two 2011 Leafs, I should have used the one with 38K, not 70k ,mileage
3) Evan though, as notes, my conversions was with a 2011 leaf, only do this with 2013 for time being until Dala's canbus doesn't throw the occasional error for the 2011 / 2012 (for 62 kwh battery)


That said:

It's great to get between 200 and 300 miles on a charge and not have to be in public life these days, charging at home at night for very little (makes me want to go solar at some point)

I think that is a good start, please let me know if this is helpful

Best,

Aloha!
 
Stanton said:
Enough talk about theory: how about a real live 24->40 kWh battery swap/install! The donor pack came from a (local) salvaged 2020 Leaf; I installed Dala's CAN-bridge myself and Chris Murphy's Automotive did the pack swap. I'm probably going to write a blog about it for EAA, but here's a couple of pics to whet your appetite.
rs=w:740,cg:true

You can see from the dash pic that the pack was in really good shape (good things come to those who wait).
rs=w:740,cg:true

Nice revival! So what issues are you working with? I can see by the pix, everything is not fine. Steve Marsh's 2011 SL had some quirks but most have been ironed out. Like any battery swap, the BMS is slow on the uptake so some issues (mostly display) will fix themselves.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Nice revival! So what issues are you working with? I can see by the pix, everything is not fine. Steve Marsh's 2011 SL had some quirks but most have been ironed out. Like any battery swap, the BMS is slow on the uptake so some issues (mostly display) will fix themselves.
What exactly in the pix is "not fine"? I don't have any issues; in fact, I'm loving the BatterySaver function that Dala added to the CAN-bridge/converter.
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Nice revival! So what issues are you working with? I can see by the pix, everything is not fine. Steve Marsh's 2011 SL had some quirks but most have been ironed out. Like any battery swap, the BMS is slow on the uptake so some issues (mostly display) will fix themselves.
What exactly in the pix is "not fine"? I don't have any issues; in fact, I'm loving the BatterySaver function that Dala added to the CAN-bridge/converter.

As an experienced LEAFer you should know that full regen and 100% SOC is not possible.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
As an experienced LEAFer you should know that full regen and 100% SOC is not possible.
Technically correct, but there is a bit of wiggle room and that is temperature. If you charge the battery up to 100% SOC and the battery is close to 100F or higher, then you can regain *nearly* full regen (25 to 30 kW range) within a few percent of (say like 98% SOC). I'm referring to the Gen 1 Leaf, I haven't experimented with the Gen 2 Leaf enough to know for sure. Just my experience with my recent 2013 Leaf.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Why would full regen not be possible with the charge limiter set to 80%...?

Well, its possible the car is far enough below full charge to regain all regen capability and still show 12 bars but the 165 mile range estimate tells me that is unlikely. EV Work's LEAF have several display peculiarities when it was upgraded probably due to a slow BMS adjusting to the new pack as many of the peculiarities cleared up on their own
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
LeftieBiker said:
Why would full regen not be possible with the charge limiter set to 80%...?

Well, its possible the car is far enough below full charge to regain all regen capability and still show 12 bars
It doesn't work that way. 80% is not 80% of new, it is 80% of the current pack capacity
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
LeftieBiker said:
Why would full regen not be possible with the charge limiter set to 80%...?

Well, its possible the car is far enough below full charge to regain all regen capability and still show 12 bars
It doesn't work that way. 80% is not 80% of new, it is 80% of the current pack capacity



Either its at 80% (which its not) and the SOC bars are wrong (unlikely) or its at 100% and ALL the 80% comments are based on the 80% setting turned on AFTER the car was charged to 100% (likely)

Kinda funny because Steve Marsh's car only showed 11 CPs for several days after the 40 kwh pack install but eventually the 12th bar showed up. A complete reversal of the normal BMS reset
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Nice revival! So what issues are you working with? I can see by the pix, everything is not fine. Steve Marsh's 2011 SL had some quirks but most have been ironed out. Like any battery swap, the BMS is slow on the uptake so some issues (mostly display) will fix themselves.
What exactly in the pix is "not fine"? I don't have any issues; in fact, I'm loving the BatterySaver function that Dala added to the CAN-bridge/converter.
As an experienced LEAFer you should know that full regen and 100% SOC is not possible.
I think the mystery has been solved as represented by this (new) dash photo!
rs=w:740,cg:true

Once I figured out I wasn't actually charging to 100%, everything made sense (I'm still figuring out the all CAN-bridge features). You'll notice now I have no time to charge to 100% with no regen available. In addition, I can now charge to 4.2v/cell with the BatterySaver function (original Leaf was 4.1v/cell).
 
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