Battery Upgrades are very possible

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It sounded like he did an overnight L2 and a mid day DC charge (free courtesy of Nissan) daily. For an Uber driver, that's very low cost wheels putting more money in your pocket with each ride. Well, until you pop a cell.
 
Dala said:
Some new development from my side on the battery upgrade topic:
Excellent kludge!

It's somewhat similar to the approach I (and others) took to get around the El Gamal signatures on messages that was used between ReplayTV units and the backend. They were shutting down the service and the units were all about to become door stops, but we realized we could use a NUL signature and it was gleefully accepted. It allowed us to generate our own messages to completely fake out then soon-to-be-shuttered backend servers.
 
goldbrick said:
That solution is almost too elegant to call a hack. Well done Dala!
Agreed!

I'm a little surprised that they don't assert the fault code when the first data fails to match. But I don't think that they were in the mindset to look out for possible attacks; they just assumed that a CAN message sent from one ECU would arrive intact at the other ECU.
 
Possible, but unlikely! For those of us who are not DIY experts, putting a healthy
traction battery in a Nissan Leaf is like listening to The Man of La Mancha:
"Dream the Impossible Dream"!

NissanLeafBatteryReplacement.com lists independent Leaf battery businesses
in the USA. They are in Washington, Oregon, Caifornia, Texas, Massachusetts.
There are no independent Leaf battery businesses between the coasts, with
the exception of the Texas shop near Dallas.

The Nissan dealer network can provide batteries and installation.
But is any Leaf worth it? The quote I got from a Denver-area dealer is
$13,500 to procure and install a 40kwh battery. Given the experience
I've had with the 30kwh battery in my 2016 Leaf, I won't trust nissanusa
to the tune of $337/kwh installed.
 
I understand where you are coming from - the 'Lettuce Pack' is the second worst battery that Nissan ever made. I might actually consider spending that $13k, though - if I had a nice Leaf already, with 80% charge option.
 
Eddie16 said:
Possible, but unlikely! For those of us who are not DIY experts, putting a healthy
traction battery in a Nissan Leaf is like listening to The Man of La Mancha:
"Dream the Impossible Dream"!

NissanLeafBatteryReplacement.com lists independent Leaf battery businesses
in the USA. They are in Washington, Oregon, Caifornia, Texas, Massachusetts.
There are no independent Leaf battery businesses between the coasts, with
the exception of the Texas shop near Dallas.

The Nissan dealer network can provide batteries and installation.
But is any Leaf worth it? The quote I got from a Denver-area dealer is
$13,500 to procure and install a 40kwh battery. Given the experience
I've had with the 30kwh battery in my 2016 Leaf, I won't trust nissanusa
to the tune of $337/kwh installed.

HUGE difference between the 30 and 40 kwh pack and realize the 30 kwh pack was unfairly denigrated. The vitriol should have been aimed at Nissan programmers who made the mistake but in retrospect, the did do well in upgrading to the 40 kwh pack.

But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.
 
DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?
 
Eddie16 said:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?

After reading your previous posts, it seems some clarification is in order. First off, considering that you didn't include the red bars in your first post, that means that when you first bought the leaf used (back in 2019 with 29k miles), it was actually showing 12-bars. Which means it most likely JUST had the BMS reset applied, which is why the dealership told you that it had already been done.

The fact that you've lost 2 bars (post-BMS reset) after just driving ~6k miles means that this current state is the _actual_ health of the battery pack. The BMS reset doesn't repair the health of the pack, it only corrects a mis-reading of the actual pack health. So it lost those two capacity bars over the span of 35k miles (not just the couple years you've had the car). So although 35k miles for a 2-bar loser sounds high for Colorado, it would actually be "normal" if that car had spent significant time in AZ, NM, Southern CA/TX, etc when it was with the previous owner.

As to the "elaboration". Our (putting words in DaveinOlyWA's mouth) understanding is that the dealerships won't even consider doing a pack upgrade. Yours is the first I've heard of where they would even quote a price to carry out the upgrade. The price doesn't sound out of line for a brand new 40kwh pack, but it's not worth it (you could sell your current leaf and buy a newer 2018 leaf that already has the 40kwh pack).
 
A small correction of the above post: a BMS reset is just that: a reboot of the Battery Management System that clears its stored data about the pack, forcing it to relearn it. It is not the BMS update software patch, although part of installing that patch involves doing a BMS reset.
 
Eddie16 said:
It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

30kWh packs have an 8 year/100k mile warranty. If the car loses 4 bars within those limits Nissan will replace the pack.
 
Eddie16 said:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?

Former policy; upgrading 24 kwh packs to a higher capacity.

I obviously made that statement based the assumption that a 24 kwh pack was involved and not a 30 kwh pack and your rebuttal reinforces my assumption (check bolded) when you state the degradation warranty on a 24 kwh pack. The 30 kwh pack must lose its 4th within 8 years or 100,000 miles.
 
Thanks for your input. It sounds possible that a BMS reset done just before selling a Leaf, can camouflage the actual state of the battery. I have reason to believe the car was originally sold new in CO. However CO is now having average summertime temps considerably higher than 30 years ago, so driving this car hard, and parking it in the sun on hot asphalt at work, could probably do damage. Can't afford a Tesla, so I'll continue to drive it until it loses more bars ... DON'T want to go back to ICE!


Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Eddie16 said:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?

After reading your previous posts, it seems some clarification is in order. First off, considering that you didn't include the red bars in your first post, that means that when you first bought the leaf used (back in 2019 with 29k miles), it was actually showing 12-bars. Which means it most likely JUST had the BMS reset applied, which is why the dealership told you that it had already been done.

The fact that you've lost 2 bars (post-BMS reset) after just driving ~6k miles means that this current state is the _actual_ health of the battery pack. The BMS reset doesn't repair the health of the pack, it only corrects a mis-reading of the actual pack health. So it lost those two capacity bars over the span of 35k miles (not just the couple years you've had the car). So although 35k miles for a 2-bar loser sounds high for Colorado, it would actually be "normal" if that car had spent significant time in AZ, NM, Southern CA/TX, etc when it was with the previous owner.

As to the "elaboration". Our (putting words in DaveinOlyWA's mouth) understanding is that the dealerships won't even consider doing a pack upgrade. Yours is the first I've heard of where they would even quote a price to carry out the upgrade. The price doesn't sound out of line for a brand new 40kwh pack, but it's not worth it (you could sell your current leaf and buy a newer 2018 leaf that already has the 40kwh pack).
 
FWIW, you can use the original sales sticker trick (details on this site) if you really want to know where your LEAF was first sold when new.

CPO website: http://cpo.nissanusa.com/en/search-inventory

The trick, to insert your own VIN: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23716&start=40#p535946
 
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