adric22
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 am

I agree - get rid of the tree. I've said it in other threads before. Ford has something similar on their energi products. I hate it. It portrays the car as a tree-hugger's car.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
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mkjayakumar
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:45 pm

It is not only a waste of space with useless information, it makes us look stupid and juvenile. It just adds to the caricature of Eco nuts. Take out everything and give me the Gids.
2011 Leaf, 30K miles, returned after 24 month lease.
Currently leasing 2014 Leaf SV.

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TomT
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:16 pm

I have always hated it. There are so many far more useful data points that could be displayed there instead!
tjlyerly wrote:Anyone else roll their eyes at that useless building tree animation in the upper left of the head's up display?
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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sproqitman
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:38 pm

tjlyerly wrote:If all the ICE engines out there efficiently burned fuel into CO2 and water only then there would be no smog.
Well, that's the issue, isn't it? A typical ICE is 20-25% efficient. An electric motor is closer to 90%. They've been working on the internal combustion engine for over 100 years. I don't expect efficiency breakthroughs anytime soon.
tjlyerly wrote:Electric car production front end loads all the CO2 emissions in manufature.
Agreed. But over the lifetime of the vehicle, the fuel emissions from the ICE will greatly exceed the emissions from the EV (even from coal). In the end, the total lifecycle emissions of the ICE will be twice that of the EV (CARB study).
tjlyerly wrote:Then of course is all the rare earth metals used which has other environmentatl consequences.
I don't follow you. If you're talking about neodymium, it's neither particularly rare or particularly toxic. If you're talking about lithium, that's neither rare or toxic. You can throw Li-Ion batteries in the landfill (although you shouldn't - they can be recycled).
tjlyerly wrote:My Leaf is powered by Coal at the power station and I hope will continue to be so I can enjoy low electric costs. Carbon emissions are of absolutely no concern to me and yes I do care about the environment. Just real environmental poisons not imagined ones.
Adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere will definitely lead to warming. The amount of warming can be debated, but the connection between CO2 and warming can't.
Last edited by sproqitman on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thankyouOB
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:39 pm

the tree thing was the one thing my salesman understood when he showed me the car two years ago.
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TomT
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:48 pm

Actually, that is not true for many reasons...

Smog comes from many sources other than just automobiles and trucks. Just one example: Los Angeles was very smoggy when first discovered by man from natural causes...

The efficiency of a motor or device does not necessarily translate in to how much smog it produces. An example: An electric heater produces massive amounts of heat, is extremely inefficient, but produces no smog.
tjlyerly wrote:If all the ICE engines out there efficiently burned fuel into CO2 and water only then there would be no smog.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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planet4ever
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:25 pm

What I want there is one of the pie charts from the console "Energy Usage" display. I'm torn between:
  • The Electric Motor chart, which is the most important one, but just duplicates with much better precision the "bubble display". It can't fully replace the bubble display without some enhancement, since it doesn't show the limits (like the single vs. double circles in the bubble display).
  • The Climate Control chart, which provides an important warning of when miles are being stolen from the battery.
There are three problems with the current console location of these graphs:
  1. Their location is far from the driver's normal line of sight, making them a distraction to driving.
  2. My "copilot" often wants to use that console for other things, like audio.
  3. They are obviously not going to be available at all on the S model, which has a very limited central console display.
Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

Stoaty
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:41 pm

tjlyerly wrote:My Leaf is powered by Coal at the power station and I hope will continue to be so I can enjoy low electric costs. Carbon emissions are of absolutely no concern to me and yes I do care about the environment. Just real environmental poisons not imagined ones.
Your ignorance is showing here, and the anti-science stance isn't going to be useful on this forum, as there are a lot of intelligent folks here. However, I agree that the stupid trees take up space that could be better used for something useful like the temperature sensors for the battery pack.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
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tjlyerly
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:01 am

Stoaty wrote:Your ignorance is showing here, and the anti-science stance isn't going to be useful on this forum, as there are a lot of intelligent folks here. However, I agree that the stupid trees take up space that could be better used for something useful like the temperature sensors for the battery pack.
Tsk, Tsk. Ignorance, anti-science... sticks and stones. There is plenty of that on display in the environmental movement, but you're probably right this is not the forum to go through that in detail.

Point is that if the goal is to increase adoption of EVs, the marketing message needs to be separated from a niche true believer mindset, bordering on religous dogma as symbolized by nature icons such as trees or leaves. Because rightly or wrongly there are plenty of smart, not ignorant people in the wider world that are unconvinced of the economics or technology and view catastrophic AGW as being politically driven and not by the science.

I leased my Leaf because
1. It was basically free to lease for 2 years. In addition to Federal and dealer incentives, my state of Georgia give a $5000 credit for a 2 year lease. Crazy I know but I'll take advantage and worry about the debt to my (and your) kids later.
2. I like to play with new technology. I've got a materials science degree, masters in IT and work in technology so it's a bit of a useful toy. Nissan loaded the Leaf with extras usually found only on upscale cars so that is nice as well.
3. I do like having transportation options. It is nice not having to drop $50 at the gas station every week and gas shortages do crop up here in Atlanta every so often, like what happened a few years ago when there was a storm in the Gulf and gas was almost impossible to get here for about 2 weeks because the refineries were shut down.

Whenever I see a green label on something I immediately think "Oh gawd, how much is that going to cost and is it really going to work". That's the mindset you have to overcome. I overcame it because I did alot of research into EVs. Building trees was a big turnoff.

To some of the points by other posters:
TomT - point taken about other natural and manmade causes of smog. Air quality has improved greatly with emissions standards and catalytic converters in recent decades to the point smog days are the rare exception even in basin metros like LA. EVs certainly do help.
sproqitman - Lithium mining consumes a great deal of material and water. Perhaps less impactful then say strip mining but the impact is there. Most of the mining takes place overseas so it's out of sight. Also, nobody is debating the link of CO2 to temperature. (common misconception people have about climate skeptics) Just whether that impact is even measurable and is significat when compared to natural variations. The planet has survived much greater periods of warming, not just in the geologic past but during the Holocene period since the last ice age.

Drivesolo
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Re: Lose the "Building Trees" on the head's up display

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:28 am

I agree w/ the OP and others here; get rid of the trees. As the Leaf becomes more mainstream, continuing to use the theme of catering to the large segment of early adopters being intensely environmentally conscious is not a good strategy. By continuing to put the eco-friendly message right in the driver's face is not a good way to appeal to the broader consumer base. The majority of all future Leaf owners will be mainly interested in $ savings, not whether or not they are potentially doing something good for the environment.
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