blimpy
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:36 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2014

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:56 pm

TomT wrote:Until I had some VERY concrete evidence that temperature degradation was truly no longer an issue, I'd not pay any more... "Fool me once... (tm)"
KJD wrote:What would you be willing to pay for a LEAF with a 36 or 48kWh pack ?

Well... Two of the big reasons for temperature degradation are:

1. Current draw vs Total Capacity

2. Rate of Charge.

If you blast down the freeway for 30 minutes at 75 mph... your current draw with be a Large Percentage of the total available power
and Battery Temperature Goes UP.

If you Quick Charge at a very high percentage of battery capacity say 20 KwH in 30 Minutes then: Battery Temperature Goes UP.

Now.. double the battery back capacity and do the same thing.

In both cases the Battery Temperature Rise will be lower - and less detrimental - because the percent of capacity draw or charge is Half
while the same thing is accomplished.

this doesn't take the place of chemical or physical changes in the battery construction needed to make them play in Phoenix in July...
but it will HELP. and in your SoCal zone and driving environment it will help a LOT. Also, for the same use, the number of charge cycles is also cut in half,
and the number of deep discharges and over 80% charges can effectively become zero... and that really improves longevity when the battery operates in that 20-60 % sweet spot. Notice I am NOT saying anything about the nutcake 600-700 lbs additional weight added to a Leaf... which isn't going to fly. :ugeek:
2016 SV purchased 11/2/16 With Subsidies From Sonoma Clean Power, North Sonoma Air Pollution Control District, Evergreen, and State of California, and $15,000 in discounts from Jim Bone Nissan Santa Rosa California. :D Color Me GRATEFUL Long Time Coming !

blimpy
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:36 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2014

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:13 pm

I think of the Leaf as the VW Bug of this century.

One of the things that made the bug work so simply was Air Cooling.

While in motion there is a fine opportunity to use Ram Air ducted through the battery pack to achieve
a good degree of cooling.

That can be passive or blower assisted... without any large energy outlay. A squirrel cage motor is quiet efficient at providing
positive pressurization and moving a good number of CFI . Given the small volume.. pressure is the answer. There are already 3 temp sensors
so this isn't hard to manage.

---

There seems to be some room between the top of the battery case and the underside of the vehicle floor.
this might be suitable for a liquid heat sink,, visualize something like a flat plate solar collector.. tubes in contact with
metal sheet.. or a thin bladder or envelope of liquid.. pipe the hot water out to a radiator, and the cooled water back through
in a closed loop. add a fan and some more ram airflow...

none of this is rocket science.. but I prefer the aircooled method because it is Light, Cheap, Simple. And because it doesn't interfere
with the basic construction of the existing battery pack. Nissan doesn't want to change that - rightly- because they are trying to
achieve Economics of Scale by producing large numbers of batteries based on the existing mechanical form internal and external.

-- If there was ever a worthy Shade Tree DIY Leaf Improvement Project.. it would be working up a simple auxiliary air cooling system
for early Leafs.- A look under the car ( try IHS crash test video) shows what can be done.

Of course your Leaf might sprout an Exhaust Pipe ! :lol: :lol:
2016 SV purchased 11/2/16 With Subsidies From Sonoma Clean Power, North Sonoma Air Pollution Control District, Evergreen, and State of California, and $15,000 in discounts from Jim Bone Nissan Santa Rosa California. :D Color Me GRATEFUL Long Time Coming !

blimpy
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:36 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2014

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:33 pm

The Human ( read IDIOT) Factor is the wild card that eludes the Engineers who try to emulate battery life.

they wouldn't dream of emulating a drunken cart driver whipping a donkey and feeding him rotten food less often than he
should.

but that is how people really behave.

Just as they will try to run ICE cars without oil, or water.

So, I don't blame them when Dr Donkey who really wants his leaf to be a Tesla, beats the crap out of the battery,
never mind what it says in the manual. The manual is the last thing to wear out in a car. Absolutely the last thing.

If the drivers would 'cool it'
Nissan wouldn't have too ! Look at the construction of a Volt Battery.. if you want to see a Nightmare of water cooled construction !

What I expect is that new chemistry maybe even cathode structure changes will find thei r way into the Leaf configuration battery over and over , but it won't change in structural or conceptual aspects for a decade... because it needs to show a profit.. since Nissan Bet The Farm on Electrics.

Someday 2011's will roll around with some pretty evolved batteries... if the owner wants to spend the money.

Think VW beetle.
2016 SV purchased 11/2/16 With Subsidies From Sonoma Clean Power, North Sonoma Air Pollution Control District, Evergreen, and State of California, and $15,000 in discounts from Jim Bone Nissan Santa Rosa California. :D Color Me GRATEFUL Long Time Coming !

Zurc
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:34 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 336692
Location: KItchener, Ontario.

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:27 pm

The beetle sucked but the engine was interesting.

Its a pity that batteries are such an issue with vehicles because electric is by far the best.

I'm thinking that for future long distance travel, cars will need to get their electric energy externally.
It's likely that all major highways will be rigged to provide that energy while batteries will provide the off highway power.

Certainly the current modus operandi will need to evolve into something more useable.

Zurc. :-)
2014 Red Leaf
2007 White Land Rover LR3
2000 Blue Excursion w/7.3L diesel.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:10 am

Unless they changed the units on GIDS, 511 is a 42 kWh battery, not 48.
But 42 is what the rumors were mostly saying for the larger pack next generation LEAF.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

DanCar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:07 am

TimLee wrote:Unless they changed the units on GIDS, 511 is a 42 kWh battery, not 48.
But 42 is what the rumors were mostly saying for the larger pack next generation LEAF.
What are you referring to? Where did you get 511 from?
2013 Leaf SL leased 3/10/2013
https://twitter.com/DanielCardena

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:10 am

DanCar wrote:
TimLee wrote:Unless they changed the units on GIDS, 511 is a 42 kWh battery, not 48.
But 42 is what the rumors were mostly saying for the larger pack next generation LEAF.
What are you referring to? Where did you get 511 from?
There was a post in the thread yesterday where someone in Ontario claimed they had used LEAF Spy on one of the test cars.
Photo showed 511.
But the post disappeared.
Last edited by TimLee on Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

DanCar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:21 am

TimLee wrote:There was a post in the thread yesterday where someone in Ontario claimed they had used LEAF Spy on one of the test cars. Photo showed 511. But the post dissppeared.
Cool. That roughly comes out to 147 mile range. In line with previous rumor of 150 mile car. 42 kWh * (84 mile range / 24 kWH) = 147 mile range.
If they are testing a car now, any guesses when we will be able to buy it? Where is the beta sign up sheet? :P
2013 Leaf SL leased 3/10/2013
https://twitter.com/DanielCardena

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:39 pm

I think that was a joke post, showing an anomaly in LeafSpy?

jstack6
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:32 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Sep 2012
Location: Chandler Arizona

Re: Nissan Tests 48-kWh LEAF

Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:52 pm

Berlino, Is that spy pro reading for real or did you adjust it from a regular LEAF?

If it's real was it a regular looking LEAF?
Did it have the rear trunk filled with batteries or ?

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