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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:13 am
by DaveinOlyWA
mux wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:40 am
Oilpan4 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
What causes the 40kwh batt to heat up so much?
We talking chademo use or does that also include the extended charging time on 6.6kw?
On *just* the 40kWh battery: anything seems to heat up the battery. Looking at it wrong is potentially bad. But all jokes aside - the Leaf 40kWh will heat up under any scenario - both driving and charging - but it'll heat up by far most during QC sessions. Using the 6.6kW charger shouldn't really heat it up much, maybe a degree here and there over many hours of charging.
That would depend on OAT. I normally see as much as 10º temp rise on a level 2 charge to full.
SageBrush wrote:
mux wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:12 am
because the 40kWh battery is not very good.
.
Would a 30 kWh battery be a better choice for a swap ? I think there were more produced for the USA market than 40 kWh
Oh yes! Absolutely, the 30kWh battery is the best battery Nissan ever made. Doesn't rapidgate, QCs up to 80%+, reasonable rate of degradation if you charge to 80% and reasonable range for everyday use. That and the air-cooled 24kWh battery in the e-nv200, that one's surprisingly excellent as well. I've seen 100 000km+ e-nv200s with 90% SoH batteries. Same chemistry, but even the slightest hint of thermal management saves that battery long-term. Unfortunately that's not an option for the Leaf, it's a completely different form factor.
+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.

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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:41 pm
by Astros
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:13 am
+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.
I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it. There must have been different versions, at least of the BMS, because when I had a 2017 SV it certainly suffered from slow charging when the pack got hot. I drove it 300-500 miles in a day several times, and starting with the third charge of the day I couldn't get more than ~22kW from a charger. On the longer trips, it got even lower. At first I thought that the chargers were defective (and posted negative comments on plugshare), but soon figured out that it was the car heating up. This was before I had LeafSpy, and I traded in the car for a 2018 SV hoping that they would have fixed the problem with the new battery. Of course, I soon found that the 2018 behaved the same way, only the slower charging started with the second charge, though I was getting more kWh from the first charge.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:01 am
by DaveinOlyWA
Astros wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:41 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:13 am
+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.
I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it. There must have been different versions, at least of the BMS, because when I had a 2017 SV it certainly suffered from slow charging when the pack got hot. I drove it 300-500 miles in a day several times, and starting with the third charge of the day I couldn't get more than ~22kW from a charger. On the longer trips, it got even lower. At first I thought that the chargers were defective (and posted negative comments on plugshare), but soon figured out that it was the car heating up. This was before I had LeafSpy, and I traded in the car for a 2018 SV hoping that they would have fixed the problem with the new battery. Of course, I soon found that the 2018 behaved the same way, only the slower charging started with the second charge, though I was getting more kWh from the first charge.
Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... af-qc.html

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:28 am
by LeftieBiker
I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it.

It is the 24kwh "Lizard" pack that is usually praised as the best pack Nissan has made. The 30kwh pack has, as you suggest, a very uneven record.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:40 pm
by AdventureMuffin
Does anyone have the latest information on a battery upgrade for the 2013 Leaf that would accept (and work) with a 40kwh or greater battery pack (one that works and meets expectations)? If so, who is it, what is their contact info?

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:04 pm
by alozzy
https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerElectronicsBlog

https://www.muxsan.com/

Unfortunately, the company is based in the Netherlands, so unless you live in that region then you are out of luck. Hopefully they will consider franchising to the the US and Canada (one can dream) at some point...

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm
by Astros
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:01 am
Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... af-qc.html
Yes, I remember the temperature gauge getting up into the red during that trip, though I don’t think it reached 12 bars. It was two years ago, so I’m afraid the details are a little fuzzy, but that wasn’t the only time we saw the charging rate slow down after a couple quick charges. Since you didn’t experience the same slowdown, I’m wondering if the later 2017 models had different software than earlier models.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:24 pm
by AdventureMuffin
alozzy wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:04 pm
https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerElectronicsBlog

https://www.muxsan.com/

Unfortunately, the company is based in the Netherlands, so unless you live in that region then you are out of luck. Hopefully they will consider franchising to the the US and Canada (one can dream) at some point...
Thank you. This is promising-yet, still in research phase. Hopefully, they will get a business plan that can attract the investors to support such an endeavor. If you hear anything about a solid offer here in the states, let me know.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:48 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
Astros wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:01 am
Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... af-qc.html
Yes, I remember the temperature gauge getting up into the red during that trip, though I don’t think it reached 12 bars. It was two years ago, so I’m afraid the details are a little fuzzy, but that wasn’t the only time we saw the charging rate slow down after a couple quick charges. Since you didn’t experience the same slowdown, I’m wondering if the later 2017 models had different software than earlier models.
Hard to say. You might have just been hotter than me. I think I peaked around 132º but that was end of charge, not beginning so a bit different. On a charge start, I think I had a few starting in the 127-128 range.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:49 pm
by alozzy
AdventureMuffin wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:24 pm

Thank you. This is promising-yet, still in research phase. Hopefully, they will get a business plan that can attract the investors to support such an endeavor. If you hear anything about a solid offer here in the states, let me know.
Actually, they are now installing production extender packs as they have proved out their tech during a beta round just completed. The most exciting advancement is that they've recently replaced the original 24kWh pack in a 2011 LEAF with a salvaged 40kWh pack + extender in the trunk. The range is basically the same as a brand new Leaf Plus. It sounded like it wasn't that difficult, so I would expect that they'll make that a commercial offering within the next 6 months or so...